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Old 04-20-2017, 11:57 PM   #1251
iloveny161
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaveTheWhales View Post
Insofar as there's no legal claim, true for all tokens. But look again at the whitepaper page 12

https://gnosis.pm/resources/default/...whitepaper.pdf

Its hazy and I had to enquire further with the team. What happens is users typically load up their account with fiat which is converted to stablecoin/WIZ behind the scenes and their fees are eventually paid in WIZ. Again, the user doesn't notice the conversion. Hence the claim that the vast majority will pay in WIZ i.e. non crypto geeks are (edit: not) the target market.

Any bitcoin / ether used for fees is auctioned to anyone that wants to burn GNO for it, reducing GNO supply long term. Idk why they wouldn't just convert the bitcoin or ether to WIZ but whatever.

Far from tokenholders getting no income, *all* the income in fees the platform receives is passed on to GNO holders.

You have to have the mindset that we are in a post-adoption scenario where web3 browsers / extensions / (d)apps / uPort / makerdao are understood OR the third party front end implementations on Gnosis are effectively masking the need for users to understand same.
I missed this part completely when I skimmed through the whitepaper. I suck. Thanks for highlighting this.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:08 AM   #1252
onemoretimes
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaveTheWhales View Post
Haha true that



Here's Koeppelman from Gnosis slack:

"we expect that most users "home fiat currency" will be available as tokens on the blockchain. Could be as something like the Santander $ (fiat backed) or with some stable coin mechanism with other crypto tokens as collateral (StabL or DAI)
So - yes - we expect that a user does not even need to know that they use crypto$/€ whatever - like you today do not necessarily realise that the $ on bank X is different than a $ on bank Y.
I don't know if I still understand how fiat makes it there. There will most likely be stable coins, but buying stable coins with fiat is just as hard as buying cryptos. Need to go through massive KYC and what not.

Then on an even bigger note, stable coins haven't even been proven to really work yet. I think tether is probably the biggest one and it is failing right now. Been on a downtrend since the owner bitfinex is having banking issues. Traded as low as 90 cents on the dollar recently, with no signs of turning around until bitfinex banking issues get solved.

I don't like how tether is so centralized. Don't know if it's possible to back any currency in a decentralized fashion though. Somebody's got to hold the cash. There also has to be some sort of fees, so there will have to be some decay that is realized.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:00 PM   #1253
housenuts
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

https://medium.com/@Cryptokeeper/a-t...co-7f4f972b0e7
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:43 PM   #1254
LVpokerPRO
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

Ltc had meeting and they will activate segwit
To the moooooooooooon boys
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Old Yesterday, 12:22 AM   #1255
onemoretimes
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by LVpokerPRO View Post
Ltc had meeting and they will activate segwit
To the moooooooooooon boys
Big bull market in cryptos, can't believe ****coin isn't hitting ATH. What exactly does segwit do for LTC that couldn't be handled before? Thought segwit was for scaling. Nobody uses LTC so it didn't even need to scale.
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Old Yesterday, 08:07 AM   #1256
Mat Cauthon
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by onemoretimes View Post
Big bull market in cryptos, can't believe ****coin isn't hitting ATH. What exactly does segwit do for LTC that couldn't be handled before? Thought segwit was for scaling. Nobody uses LTC so it didn't even need to scale.
Segwit is a backwards compatible malleability fix. With the parameters it's configured with in the implementation proposals in Litecoin and Bitcoin, it is also an increase in effective maximum block size.

The capacity increase isn't necessary at all in Litecoin, with the usage they see now. But if the use cases that are possible after a malleability fix drives a lot of adoption, then that capacity increase might be necessary sooner rather than later.
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Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM   #1257
syndr0me
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

Sooooo that was fast
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Old Yesterday, 02:49 PM   #1258
housenuts
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

Lol Gnosis buyers
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Old Yesterday, 03:25 PM   #1259
onemoretimes
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

Is my math right. They stopped after 250k ETH raised, so at $30/piece they sold 416k GNO and are keeping 9.5 mil GNO for themselves?????
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Old Yesterday, 03:39 PM   #1260
syndr0me
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

Your math is close enough

Seems like they should have a plan for this? Utilizing the currency functionality to vote on something would be a smart play.
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Old Yesterday, 04:32 PM   #1261
iloveny161
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

That was incredible to watch. Didn't get in but good luck to everyone who bought!
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Old Yesterday, 06:12 PM   #1262
aggo
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaveTheWhales View Post
Insofar as there's no legal claim, true for all tokens. But look again at the whitepaper page 12

https://gnosis.pm/resources/default/...whitepaper.pdf

Its hazy and I had to enquire further with the team. What happens is users typically load up their account with fiat which is converted to stablecoin/WIZ behind the scenes and their fees are eventually paid in WIZ. Again, the user doesn't notice the conversion. Hence the claim that the vast majority will pay in WIZ i.e. non crypto geeks are (edit: not) the target market.

Any bitcoin / ether used for fees is auctioned to anyone that wants to burn GNO for it, reducing GNO supply long term. Idk why they wouldn't just convert the bitcoin or ether to WIZ but whatever.

Far from tokenholders getting no income, *all* the income in fees the platform receives is passed on to GNO holders.

You have to have the mindset that we are in a post-adoption scenario where web3 browsers / extensions / (d)apps / uPort / makerdao are understood OR the third party front end implementations on Gnosis are effectively masking the need for users to understand same.

When I wrote this, i specifically meant that i had issues with the way bets are settled on Gnosis through their "oracle" method. I think their system is probably more reliable than Augur's by virtue of the fact that there will be centralized entities, but centralized oracles & ultimate oracle where anyone with Eth can go in and change the outcome really opens them to attacks on outcomes. This is why I wrote that it was a scam, anyone in the "ultimate oracle" phase can go in and basically rekt the entire market just because they own a **** ton of ether.

In REP/Augur this would be so hard to do because REP holders are anonymous and distributed and completely randomized as to what markets they are reporting on. They cannot be bought out in the 2nd market to "change this outcome".

I also want to say that I am EXTREMELY skeptical that Augur/Gnosis have constructed sound and correct economic incentives to ensure that markets consistently settle "correctly", even if the majority of markets settle themselves before the reporting period opens.

The fact that anyone bought into this token sale where an outcome exists for devs to own 95% of tokens is a complete joke. I dont feel sorry for anyone who bought in and I hope it completely collapses on itself. The community needs another DAO/wakeup call on these ICOs, and I hope Gnosis is this tale.
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Old Yesterday, 06:36 PM   #1263
housenuts
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Re: Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

Seems very easy to rek Gnosis ultimate oracle.

Doing so with rep would require the bad actor to gain > 50% of rep and then report incorrectly on appeal. This would succeed in rekking the market and incorrectly paying out, but after than REP would be forked and the REP of the bad actor would be worthless.
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