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Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread Virtual Currency - Alt Coin Discussion Thread

07-27-2016 , 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkmann
Looks like the ETC hype is over so not as much to worry about imo.
theres still a little hype. A large number of people on the ETC hype train are bitcoiners looking for another November2013. With volume like this and the brand recognition ETC has, if the price gets low enough and the volume stays high, theres definitely some decent money to be made there
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07-27-2016 , 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkmann
So ETC hash rate starts to win out, then what happens? Everyone including developers simply abandon ETH?
I wrote that because there were some people who I was talking to who believed that hte price was being manipulated (duh) on poloniex. They thought the volume was fake (since it was so high).

So sure, you could pump and dump ETC just like any other ****coin, but because it is competing still a competing Ethereum chain (note, I do not write "ETH") hashrate is finite. And we know the normal hashrate of ETH and ETC at any given moment, that was the determining factor IMO that would decide which chain will win. This matters because the chain with the greatest security, hence hash rate, is the one that people possess the most confidence in-- irrespective of value.

Today, we are positive that ETC has value. But for ETC to overtake ETH as the preferred or dominant chain, it has to possess more than just value over ETH. It needs all of the mining power that Ethereum can possess.

This means that either there is a tipping point where enough miners jump ship to ETC, causing a mssive and sudden loss of confidence in ETH as a secure blockchain. Subsequently it would lose the majority of its value within hours, in addition to network power.

Or

The altruistic miners of ETC that stayed on the original fork are slowly bled out regardless of the nominal value of ETC because miner upkeep is a serious commitment and expensive.
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07-28-2016 , 06:37 PM
i got my etc on finex.
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07-29-2016 , 01:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggo
i got my etc on finex.
I didn't get ****. Pissed me off. Essentially they passed the debt from the guys who sold short on to the lenders. I'm over it.. I know I can't change it, but it was kind of stressing me out because I believed in this ETH and next thing I know it might be ETC taking it over in the long run. Not that I think this is going to happen, but my whole long term perspective had changed and I figured I better hedge for peace of mind. I found a very easy fix by turning the equivalent ETH into ETC that I should have gotten. This way I know I'm covered either way and I don't need to stress. Probably cost me about 10% of my investment.

Essentially I got royally ****ed more then even the DAO ****s. They got bailed out and then I get ****ed when the supply of ETH gets inflated by 100% and I was in the small maybe 1% of loaners who didn't get **** in ETC. Where's my ****ing bailout now? **** like that starts to make me think the ETC has merit, the only problem is the devs say they are supporting ETH. The future is all about the devs. ETC has some devs popping up, but they all appear to be on a money grab trying to pump the price. What I'm wondering is can ETC essentially easily upgrade to anything ETH does? Like if ETH goes to POS like "Casper" plans on, ETC will upgrade at the same time? From my understanding that is the way it would work. If that isn't the case, well then ETC isn't worth **** and tell me so I can sell it back for ETH.


Somebody in the know on this **** went massive margin prefork and made out like a bandit. Guessing Poloniex didn't just decide after the fact they were going to list this ****.
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07-29-2016 , 02:19 AM
It took way too long to research, test, wait to confirm, trade, then finally correctly split my ETC and get it all traded but I'm out. The whole process reminded me just how far away crypto is in terms of being accessible to the average internet user. The amount of ETC that has been lost or stolen from people at this point must be mind boggling high.

I managed to add 13% to my ETH holdings. I don't think ETC is going to zero, but I think it will lag ETH in terms of returns given that it will always be a follower and late adopter to whatever ETH does. Maybe that's a good thing in some people's eyes but I'll stick with Vitalik. The fork was clearly rushed and handled poorly, but I think the community learned a lot in the process and any possible future forks will go much more smoothly.
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07-29-2016 , 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andr3w321
It took way too long to research, test, wait to confirm, trade, then finally correctly split my ETC and get it all traded but I'm out. The whole process reminded me just how far away crypto is in terms of being accessible to the average internet user. The amount of ETC that has been lost or stolen from people at this point must be mind boggling high.

I managed to add 13% to my ETH holdings. I don't think ETC is going to zero, but I think it will lag ETH in terms of returns given that it will always be a follower and late adopter to whatever ETH does. Maybe that's a good thing in some people's eyes but I'll stick with Vitalik. The fork was clearly rushed and handled poorly, but I think the community learned a lot in the process and any possible future forks will go much more smoothly.
Fwiw I think
There will be 3 ethereum chains minimum once POS is released. People will fork ETH themselves before the official POS release because they refuse to believe that it works and/or is secure. Or vitalik will say that pos requires a hard fork which has been his stance on how he wants to deploy POS for a while. If this is the case, we are looking at 3 ethereum chains

Ethereum classic
Ethereum work
Ethereum stake


Cliffs: buckle up more **** shows are ahead
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07-29-2016 , 03:05 AM
I bought some ETH recently hoping to simply hold it long term. Now I'm in the middle of this distracting drama show. Ill probably dump it at some point until this nonsense is over.
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07-29-2016 , 03:10 AM
I split my ETH/ETC into two different accounts, deposited the ETC and traded away most of the ETC. Followed this guide:
http://whysos3rious.com/index.php/20...ck-and-profit/

Took like 2h to sync classic blockchain, 30min to wait for 120 confirmations at polo and like 10minutes to follow the guide.

Quote:
The whole process reminded me just how far away crypto is in terms of being accessible to the average internet user.
Light client should be out in a few weeks right? I have taught some non-computer-savvy user to use Electrum and they seem to be doing fine. But I agree that Ethereum is another dimension of complex compared to Bitcoin. Even I struggle with understanding wallet, account and contract. Imo someone should hide this away from the user and just make a simple wallet without contract functionality.
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07-29-2016 , 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heltok
Took like 2h to sync classic blockchain, 30min to wait for 120 confirmations at polo and like 10minutes to follow the guide.
I followed this guide: https://steemit.com/ethereum/@pauls/...g-your-eth-etc It took me all day pretty much. I spent at least an hour researching and downloading the wallet. Then I split a small amount, sent the 10 ETH to my new mist wallet and 10 ETC to bit fin ex. I waited an hour for bit fin ex to confirm and it never did. I emailed them and they said you can't send them split ETC direct from the contract. After awhile they credited my account anyways. So then I tried it with 10 ETH again sending 10 ETH to my new mist wallet and 10 ETC to kraken. I waited 30 mins to confirm and they accepted my ETC no problem. Then I traded the ETC for ETH successfully on the kraken platform. Then I did the whole process again with my full amount. Of course I had to again wait for the confirmations, trades and withdrawal.

I guess polo and kraken may split your ETC for you now if you send them prefork ETH, but I didn't trust that.
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07-29-2016 , 04:42 AM
Recommendation for reading material on this topic? Watched a bitcoin documentary recently and want to learn more. So much crap information out there, hard to sift through.
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07-29-2016 , 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by THAKID
Recommendation for reading material on this topic? Watched a bitcoin documentary recently and want to learn more. So much crap information out there, hard to sift through.
Take the free bitcoin course on Coursera or free Introduction to Digital Currencies MOOC from the University of Nicosia.
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07-29-2016 , 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkmann
I bought some ETH recently hoping to simply hold it long term. Now I'm in the middle of this distracting drama show. Ill probably dump it at some point until this nonsense is over.
BTC always seems to rise in the face of adversity. Like when the drama about increasing block size was being fought over, people started dumping and the price has risen drastically since then. I'm sure we're not the only people who have thought about or actually dumped over this nonsense. I guess Warren Buffets saying of being greedy when others are fearful may stand true here. I swore to myself to hold ETH long term no matter what and I'm going to stick with it. I knew there was going to be crazy stuff along the way just like BTC. Hopefully there are many great things to come that haven't even been thought of yet.
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07-29-2016 , 09:53 AM
Yeah I can agree with that. Seems the more I read on bitcoin forums, the more fearful I get. But its impossible to know what is fact and BS over there.

Does anyone get anything out of bitcointalk.org? It seems like a massive zoo, but I'm sure it has some value if you can spare the time.
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07-29-2016 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by THAKID
Recommendation for reading material on this topic? Watched a bitcoin documentary recently and want to learn more. So much crap information out there, hard to sift through.

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07-29-2016 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkmann
Yeah I can agree with that. Seems the more I read on bitcoin forums, the more fearful I get. But its impossible to know what is fact and BS over there.

Does anyone get anything out of bitcointalk.org? It seems like a massive zoo, but I'm sure it has some value if you can spare the time.
it is such a zoo and their forum software is crap
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07-29-2016 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemoretimes
I didn't get ****. Pissed me off. Essentially they passed the debt from the guys who sold short on to the lenders. I'm over it.. I know I can't change it, but it was kind of stressing me out because I believed in this ETH and next thing I know it might be ETC taking it over in the long run. Not that I think this is going to happen, but my whole long term perspective had changed and I figured I better hedge for peace of mind. I found a very easy fix by turning the equivalent ETH into ETC that I should have gotten. This way I know I'm covered either way and I don't need to stress. Probably cost me about 10% of my investment.

Essentially I got royally ****ed more then even the DAO ****s. They got bailed out and then I get ****ed when the supply of ETH gets inflated by 100% and I was in the small maybe 1% of loaners who didn't get **** in ETC. Where's my ****ing bailout now? **** like that starts to make me think the ETC has merit, the only problem is the devs say they are supporting ETH. The future is all about the devs. ETC has some devs popping up, but they all appear to be on a money grab trying to pump the price. What I'm wondering is can ETC essentially easily upgrade to anything ETH does? Like if ETH goes to POS like "Casper" plans on, ETC will upgrade at the same time? From my understanding that is the way it would work. If that isn't the case, well then ETC isn't worth **** and tell me so I can sell it back for ETH.


Somebody in the know on this **** went massive margin prefork and made out like a bandit. Guessing Poloniex didn't just decide after the fact they were going to list this ****.

I dont believe you got inflated against 100%

Technically yes, both chains are Ethereum but they arent equal in value both in a literally and figuratively. In the long run, one chain is going to bleed out, and I would bet on it being ETC. Did you lose some 10-15% in EV? Definitely, but if you held a large position you would be a complete idiot to sell all of your Ethereum on either chain given the uncertainty.

As for how ETC gets developed, I dont know. My feeling is that no one knows if the "leaders" whoever the **** they are, are just going to port over every single Ethereum git release. Its certainly possible, but the reality is that alot of the dapps and Mist will eventually become incompatible with ETC vs ETH vs ETH^pos. So near term, yes it seems to me that they will just be able to yank all of the code and just import it into ETC. But eventually they wont be able to do that... especially once dapps and Mist become fully functional. Probably, they will never incorporate PoS and try to entice miners to mine an ever 20% inflating coin with a difficulty schedule that was never intended to stay on PoW, (gl with that).
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07-29-2016 , 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkmann
Yeah I can agree with that. Seems the more I read on bitcoin forums, the more fearful I get. But its impossible to know what is fact and BS over there.

Does anyone get anything out of bitcointalk.org? It seems like a massive zoo, but I'm sure it has some value if you can spare the time.
that place is completely worthless. dont bother reading anything in that place unless you feel like getting scammed.
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07-29-2016 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andr3w321
I followed this guide: https://steemit.com/ethereum/@pauls/...g-your-eth-etc It took me all day pretty much. I spent at least an hour researching and downloading the wallet. Then I split a small amount, sent the 10 ETH to my new mist wallet and 10 ETC to bit fin ex. I waited an hour for bit fin ex to confirm and it never did. I emailed them and they said you can't send them split ETC direct from the contract. After awhile they credited my account anyways. So then I tried it with 10 ETH again sending 10 ETH to my new mist wallet and 10 ETC to kraken. I waited 30 mins to confirm and they accepted my ETC no problem. Then I traded the ETC for ETH successfully on the kraken platform. Then I did the whole process again with my full amount. Of course I had to again wait for the confirmations, trades and withdrawal.

I guess polo and kraken may split your ETC for you now if you send them prefork ETH, but I didn't trust that.

Vitalik is a moron and I have no idea why he posted that method. Its so unecessarily complicated and fraught with potholes for a lot of people unfamiliar with Ethereum/Mist/programming/contracts.

Download an old Mist
Sync ETC blockchain

= fool proof.
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07-29-2016 , 06:33 PM
I wonder if Vitalik is on the LSD train like many other programmers.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/25/tech...ilicon-valley/
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07-29-2016 , 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemoretimes
I wonder if Vitalik is on the LSD train like many other programmers.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/25/tech...ilicon-valley/
Nah, he prefers weed:

Last edited by heltok; 07-29-2016 at 06:53 PM.
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07-29-2016 , 07:38 PM
So I'm talkign with some people, and it looks to me we will have many many new forks of ethereum soon (e.g. by 2018)

by forks, i mean active forks. (e.g. not Ethereum frontier)


The main issue propelling this is the fact that in Ethereum, mining difficulty and hashrate are not explicitly coupled. The Ethereum foundation did this back in Homestead as a measure to force PoS onto the network, as it was originally planned as a hardfork, and probably still is. There are some calculations (e.g. http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/qu...ible/3800#3800) that basically ensure that a hardfork of Ethereum will happen, because 1hour blocks are simply not network sustainable.

So to me it looks like something serious is going to happen inside of Ethereum within the next 12 months.

ETH Classic will have to fork. Possibly their devs will fork it to remain on PoW forever (smart), or it will simply port over ETH's PoS. ETH will have to fork to PoS.

this is all assuming that PoS is ready by q2 2017. If it isnt, then its possible that we can see ETH fork twice into PoS, creating 3 active fork chains:

ETHc PoW difficulty fix
ETH
ETH PoW difficulty fix
ETH PoS

Summary:

ETHc will have to fork
ETH will have to fork

if they fork into PoS, and it fails (as in, PoS is not secure), consider Ethereum completely dead. Because it will be unbelievably difficult to rescue PoW ETH or ETHc forks once PoS has been active.

it is possible that people will look to reboot Ethereum and start with a new genesis block, separate from ETHc (smart) that is PoW forever.
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07-30-2016 , 03:39 AM
You should have asked those time travellers for some stock advice! Imo I would assume that you are thinking about the "forced" PoW-nuke contract that will be executed forcing a hard fork to PoS. Are there any more planned that classic would need to follow?

For classic this would mean that in like 2-4 years something(I am lazy to do the math) Ethereum classic would be slower than Bitcoin:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/co...omb_will_make/
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07-30-2016 , 04:29 PM
lmao

Yes the "difficulty bomb" is something that ETC will have to reconcile, and soon. It is coming before 2-4 years, more like middle of 2017 before block timings are spaced into the minutes to hours.

The issue with ETC is that there is no clear developmental leadership and no roadmap. We dont know if they plan to simply port over all of ETH's improvements or not. If they don't, there is no question that htey will have to HF to stay on PoW forever. Its a huge open ended question that is more than just rhetorical, or place holding in nature-- it asks what ETC wants to be in the future.

And that, I've got no idea.

But in a broader sense, I'm much more concerned about Ethereum as a whole now than I was after the DAO attack. This forced and deliberate difficulty bomb is indicative of a massive flaw in Ethereum's leadership, because its just a god awful idea-- and now in light of the birth of a new active Ethereum fork it looks even worse today than it did 6 months ago. There will undoubtedly be very influential people (miners, developers) who will speak out against PoS, and may even be attempts to re-fork ETH before PoS becomes live as insurance to it's potential risks. Just a complete potential cluster ****.

PoS is incredibly risky, even from my non-technical perspective, and forcing this technology onto the network before it could be ready is just a ****ing disaster. Complete disaster that is almost guaranteed to divide the community when it comes time to upgrade since confidence in the Ethereum foundation has been severely eroded in recent weeks.

Of course, there is also a possibility that the Ethereum foundation's implementation of PoS is hardy and resistant to attack. Its definitely possible in which case makes ETH extremely more valuable.

Last edited by aggo; 07-30-2016 at 04:35 PM.
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07-30-2016 , 11:23 PM
PoW =
PoS =
Yea I'm a pleb, but hey at least i got some ETH and BTC, of my own
Better late then never!
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07-31-2016 , 03:03 AM
proof of work is the consensus method used by bitcoin and ethereum to propagate new blocks onto their blockchains. the "work" part is what miners do to independently verify and agree that each block that is added to the blockchain contains the correct "hash" and thus continue to build on the blockchain. Each new hash is partly determinate from the previous block that was just added to the chain, thus making the network very resistant to actors trying to go into the network and change previous transactions/blocks.

proof of stake is a different method of reaching consensus within the same confines of adding blocks to the blockchain. What exactly it is, I'm not ****ing sure. Basically people put up bonds of cryptocurrency to ensure that they are fair actors. And some other **** happens and new blocks with new transactions are still added. it has serious advantages over proof of work which is particularly resource heavy and very centralized(e.g. building a lot of chips and using alot of electricity). A lot of actual scientists and developers are doubtful that proof of stake can be as resistant to bad actors as proof of work is in bitcoin and currently ethereum

PM tom collins, he knows a lot about this ****.
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