it wasnt until this 2nd page that i was getting more indepth reasons on why this would be a bad idea. Just saying "its a bad idea" dosent help much. its like asking why bringing a toaster into the bathtub is a bad idea?...obviously you cant make toast in bathtub it will get soggy, right? but the last few posts have opened up a few things i was blind to before.

I never said i plan on making an "abnormally high profit". i was wondering if getting into Vintage wines could be a good diversification to my portfolio. clearly the general consensus here is that it is not. which is what this discussion was for.

im not offended by you saying "im not as smart as i think". but in your posts you have not explained your self on why wine investments are bad. you just say, "Wine is probly one of the worst possible investments for someone like you"...please explain why, specifically for me? is it my hair colour? length of toe nails? where im from or what? a plus that i see is that, i would not be consuming the wine, which makes it available for sale later, im also young, so i have time for it to age.

thanks for the responce, When You say "defs hard to make money" are you saying its difficult to make money after you factor in the wine that you drink for your self? or is this strictly wine that you bought to resell and is difficult to earn a profit? Would you be able to make more money if you did not drink any wine whatsoever?

It's terrible for you because you are buying a miniscule amount and it is nowhere near worth the time to research. Plus you are obviously naive about how hard it will be and how competitive any market is where you can make money. As a result you will likely lose decent amounts of time and money on this venture.

I wouldn't recommend this to anyone as an investment really, but obviously there are major players that can turn a profit. It seems to me that these players are really acting more like distributors for the vineyards to make money anyway. Not something that you can do.

Recommending wine is like recommending that a newbie go and start playing sunday millions. Experts might be able to make money, but a novice recreational player will get killed. That is what you are. You are the fish that the sharks eat.

What you essentially did was say, "Well I already have an internet connection, and don't have to buy a new computer like these pro multi tablers do, therefore I have an edge." You didn't even consider why the pros might have an edge on you.

Give your money to a financial adviser and ask him to make sure that it is well diversified. Managing your own investments will be a total disaster for you given the line of thinking that you have shown so far in this thread.

Edit: Telling you that you are not as smart as you think you are, is not meant as an insult. It is meant to be an enlightening fact to guide your investing future. I guarantee that every successful investor has discovered this fact for themselves at some point in their career. Markets are humbling.

Lot of good stuff here.

OP: Add insurance and cost of capital to your expenses. Also remember that it can be very difficult to exit a position. At the auction house I work at, we typically need to receive the wines 2 months before the sale and payout is 2 months after.

Even more than most investments wine is a random walk. For every guy who hit the jackpot buying 1982 Bordeaux futures there's someone who got killed buying 2000s California cabernets. And one more thing: do you really think buying luxury goods is a great hedge against your stock market investments?

its all part of learning curve, im naive because im still young and lack experience. so forgive me for that, but i am trying my best to manage by doing things myself. thats just how i do things. Regardless of the posts, i have fun researching things like this and debating where stuff like this breaks down or why/why not everyone dosent/does do this, etc.

I thought about the insurance also, thats when i thought if, god forbid, a fire or flood, or something bad like that in my area i would be up ****s creek without having the "lot" insured.

AT the time i "thought" it would be interesting to research and see if it could be a good diversification strategy, (agian thats why i posted here). i sold myself on the idea that because i dont drink wine, i wont be tempted to drink it, therefore can sell more. (almost like a drug dealer mentality kinda thing, those who dont use can make more, etc. i think i saw that in american gangster) but this was just me looking at the surface of things and stuff, i still believe we are only scrapping the surface, but as far as it has gone, it only seems like it will be getting harder from here.

what is in your current portfolio such that wine would be the next logical step?

How about something more prosaic like, say, a summer blackout when you're out of town?

A friend of mine is a member of the 0.1%. He has a wine collection that is worth over $1m and if he sold it all today he would make a decent cash-on-cash return (no idea about the IRR). He amassed this collection because he loves to drink wine. His collection has appreciated for two reasons. The first is that he is on the distribution list of a bunch of "cult" wines and the second is that he is a member of an exclusive Burgundy wine tasting club. When the economy went to hell in 2008 he was able to get normally expensive wines for a screaming good deal (due to already being on the distribution list). Through the Burgundy club he gets access to great wines as well as very specific knowledge about which vintages and winemakers are very good. He sometimes sells a few bottles for a profit to local specialty wine retailers. They are his friends so he access to this network.

So there you have it. A detailed investment plan on how to make money in the wine business.

Better investment strategy for OP:

1. Watch Mad Money
2. Buy highly rated stocks.
3. Profit!!!


And FFS please stop talking about "diversifying" your portfolio with a fickle luxury item.

pick out the few guys here that have some knowledge or you think are sharp, and contact them directly? There's a lot of posters in BFI that don't have two cents worth to make two cents on a topic, but think they do. And a lot of posters who have invaluable knowledge but it's certainly easier to share and communicate without all the noise. I don't know anything about wine or selling it, but that's what I would do I guess.

from a general business perspective though what makes buying for appreciation value > than buying/trading/reselling/brokering (helping people build a collection for mark-up) on some platform. Seems like less uncertainty, not as much cash tied up you can't draw credit on, not as much overhead period. Is the market for buying and selling wine very tight, are people paying the same price for the same stuff all over?

This, even if OP could beat the huge players, it would be on such a small scale that the payout would not exceed the effort put in. OP not considering the level of his carrying costs earlier itt does not bode well.

OP there has to be hundreds of better options then vintage wine at this point in your investing career.

20 shares of BRK.A

JKS No way, essentially threw darts at board and bought some stocks. im doing OK with them so far. YTD up quiet a bit cuz mREIT's did well this year so far + juice ball divedongz.

the wine investment thing, was just an idea i came across i the liquor store the other day when i bought my friends dad a bottle of wine as a thank you gift for sponsoring me in some golf tourny.

very intresting story, thanks for sharing! i guess connections in this business are HUGE HUGE HUGE. if you dont know people it will be very very difficult.