Make sense, ty


No, I don't look for a quick get rich scheme. I'm more than willing to put in a ton of hours, but there's so much noise out there that you can't simply study trading. I mean, the biggest pit you have to overcome is discern good from bad tips, and that's close to impossible. If you lurk around you would see anyone has their theory, without any solid fundamentals.
Anyway, why day traders don't post graphs as brag?

When you say the biggest pit to overcome is discern good from bad tips what do you mean exactly? I read your post as it's hard to find people who are actually successful trading. I was always a skeptic myself until I found myself in a day trading chat room in 2008. There was no off topic chit chat allowed during market hours. The best traders in that room were consistent every day. Good traders want to be in the company of other good traders so they will flock together. You might have to try out a bunch of chat rooms to find a good one. Trust me they are out there.

I didn't hang out in chat rooms but I read forums a lot but I didn't feel like any of those guys had an edge. In poker, you cannot call 50% of your stack to setmine, and this is proved mathematically, so if a player want to study, math is going to help. In trading, there are so many different strategies those principles goes again each others.
Really, no one, and I mean, no one, replied me properly, even in a trading forums. For now I just think, they'd like to be right, they keep trying to do something that do make sense for them, but I'm really skeptic about their results. Also, assuming you are pretty competent and you know what you are doing, you'll be rich in a few years. Well, I didn't heard any story of this kind.
Anyway ty for stopping by and let me know your thoughts, maybe it's just me, but for me, for the individual trader, markets are simply unbeatable.
When someone will tell me exactly where's his edge come from and a lifetime graph, may I would change my mind

WE ARE making our money and don't need to change your mind.
You have been given the info ; it seems like you just want us to give you the formula that works for us and you get to bypass the years of studying and learning.
my post clearly states my goal is yearly income.
If I make 70k am I rich no, can I pay my bills , support my family, and take a few trips, sure. BTW unlike poker where you can fool yourself about the results, UNCLE SAM IS RIGHT THERE watching and yearly tax statements show you clearly if you won or lost.
If its not for you than its not for you move on to something your more comfortable with.
You notice all my posts are early AM. I'm up at 4AM EST so when the market opens I already have several hours looking for that edge of the day as you want to call it.

^I don't know why you take so personal, clearly, I'm not attacking you. I just posted my questions, if you don't wanna answer that's fine. Are you a successful trader? Congratz for that.
I'm more than sure you can obfuscate the name on your statements so you can post them without any IRS trouble, but honestly I don't care, that's not the point of the discussion. The point is, can you prove you have an edge? Yes or no?

The point isn't to prove to you or anyone!
The point is to help those you want to give it a go;
and to highlight the pitfalls and speed bumps.
take so personal I'm not .
But those of us who have found a winning formula are not just going to
give it away on the internet.
JUST LIKE POKER
if you apply yourself , lose the ego, and are always willing to learn you can make a go of it.
showing a statement of what stocks I trade and my patterns is just opening up
my niche to others.
I gave you the basics of what I look for , how I do it and what my goals are
that should be enough, others have talked about options trading .

If you don't think anyone makes money in the market than you must think all poker players lose as well. All sports betters lose, all horse handicappers lose ETC...

Anyone starting out is hugely better of trading daily - monthly sampling periods as they have the lowest entropy in every market.*

This can be done while working corporate and even with low capital 5-10k with fractional kelly bet sizing. This will ensure low possibility of over-trading, low spread to trade cost, low cost of having -ev trading strategy and enable you to research while experimenting (read: building models)

*actually 1min and lower has lower entr. but to assume you can be efficient in capturing the spread and not f up while starting is ridiculous...

Yeah that's a great point, if you want to avoid going all-in and potentially ****ing up your life, pulling in savings from a job + trading is a very high probability success path with minimal downside.

Ty for your post. Another naive question if you don't mind...
Assuming there are some number of winning individual traders and giving the huge power of compounding, are they multimillionaire? If not, why?

Hi, I played poker professionally for about 10 years. Been trading forex/futures for 5+ years. Spent the last few years of my poker career bumhunting HU while I studied trading.

The meme is that 90% of day traders fail,about the same as poker players. It's say its more like 97+%, when we're talking about a period of more than a year or two.

Once you know how the market really works on a chart and what drives it, trading isn't actually THAT difficult .You can be relatively consistent, losing days can be uncommon. You can slowly increase capital and become a multimillionaire.

What is EXTREMELY difficult is getting to the point where you have that knowledge, confidence and experience. You can put in the time (years) to get the experience, but there is a trading bull**** machine on the internet that can very easily lead to you wasting an indefinite amount of time on bull****.

New traders are constantly seeking out the best information to gain knowledge, to practice without ever really knowing if what they are practicing will work, even if they put full time hours for years into it.

The bottom line is this. Anyone who really is a good successful trader and understands how the market works, spent 5+ years (and often 10+)getting to that information with a LOT of pain along the way. They are NOT going to give that information to someone they dont know on the internet. It's not going to happen. There is no incentive to sell that information (in fact a disincentive).
99% of everything you read on the internet is from people who dont know how to trade.

Dont believe anyone can trade, including me and everyone on this thread unless you see a proven long term p+l. I can guarantee you'll never see one. And you shouldn't believe anything anyone says unless you do.

The only thing I can advise for anyone wanting to be a trader is to:

Think of it as a masters degree. Spend a year or two trading and give it your best shot with whatever limited information you decide to go with. After failing for years with some limited successes along the way, you will have market experience, that much you will have gained. At that point you need to find a mentor, someone who you verifiably KNOW with proof, is a successful trader and who is willing to help you, I have no idea how you will find that person, but find him you must.

So what is recommended as a course of action to learn the correct material? Someone said before that reading/studying TA books (currently what I'm doing) is the equivalent of reading Helmuth to beat midstakes but worse. So what else can be done other than studying what is out there and trying to develop a system for yourself to swing trade corn/wheat/etc?

The dude above your post just told you. You need to start trading with whatever limited info you have and learn from experience. You're not going to be spoon fed trade secrets and you are not entitled to receive this information. Be a risk taker or find something else to "dabble" in

I was bashing poker for years ago on here. I recognized the game was getting harder each year while other players kept deluded to their unrealistic dream of being millionaires overnight...I use to drop by the psychology section every now & then and whine about my poker issues and how miserable I was. Finally one day I just realize poker isn't my thing and the stock market is where I should belong. Poker is way too stressful and reliant on mood. It is extremely difficult to be profitable if your bored and stressed out from playing too much/too long.

Back in 2000, where if you visited sites like Betfred or Empire poker tons of players in cash games will just throw money at your face to make themselves look like big shots. I made 10k from nothing in one day. Now the game is full of sharks and nitty players that won't give you a dime without you breaking a gallon of sweat.

I started day trading seriously about 3 months ago. Got burnt most of the time but gained a ton more experience than I did trying to study the market for free in 2 years.

Daytrading is much more complicated than LT investing. You run into lots of traps, pitfalls & outright scams... Expect to lose thousands just to gain some experience. After a while you begin to grasp the market and the psychology a little better. Gotta do it yourself thou. There are things that cannot be taught in words like market intuition, discipline and trading experience for example.

paper trade for a while?

If you trade with paper money then you only gain paper money experience.
In poker, you won't be pro no matter how long you did that.
When real stakes are involved it's becomes an whole different playing field.

Poker and trading are very different in this respect though. Play poker is useless because your opponent is not realistic. Paper trading however is in the "real" market and your opponent (yourself) is very real. You must approach it with the proper mindset though. If you treat it like paper money it won't do you much good. You have to approach it seriously and that it is 100% real. Most don't though so it is highly variant upon the person doing it.

There are pitfalls to paper trading though as the fills will be different from actual and sometimes things like slippage will be much different which must be taken into account. But if approached properly, paper trading is extremely valuable.

Paper trading will only improve your skill and not your ability to handle emotions. They're dumbed down with a fictional account. To me, handling emotion was my greatest pitfall in poker.
As they say, poker is 10% skill 90% the rest. This ratio is not "too much" different in trading.

It is true the emotion of real money cannot be duplicated. But with the proper approach and mindset while paper trading it can effectively be simulated. You can use paper trading to train yourself how to handle specific situations. Most people can't/won't do this however, just like most people can't successfully trade. It is easy to take shortcuts while paper trading and even "shots" because it isn't real.

You have to force yourself to treat paper trading as 100% real and use it form the discipline to trade properly and effectively. Once again most won't be able too. But if you can come up with a trading strategy and paper trade it successfully for a reasonable amount of time after back testing it for a substantial amount of time then you can seamlessly take it live having experienced the pitfalls that will be encountered. Only the truly focused and determined will ever do this though.

this is a bad comparison imo

you need money in order to learn poker because you need the competition. you can trade paper and its the same technically. the market does what the market does, whereas people at a play money table dont do what people at a mid/high stakes cash game do

emotionally its obviously different. that said i think people are a bit lost in this thread about being an online pro in 2016. its like people are comparing it to being a live pro in 2008 or even an online pro in 2008. I get the impression people are just totally unaware of difference here

im not suggesting that an online pro has flawless mental game but the pitfalls and leaks stated itt have been weeded out of 99% of online pros in 2016. in 2008 you could have a handful of skills and a handful of leaks but thats just not really true anymore. players have leaks obviously but they have far less leaks and much smaller ones

Excuse my naivety, but I have been a successful poker player and not experienced at all with trading.

How hard would it be to be a successful trader, that is, a trader who makes a good living?

I do not subscribe to the belief that markets are efficient. However, I would be paying fees every time that I buy and sell and I am also competing against everyone else out there in the market.

Are trading courses also rubbish? If someone has a system where you can earn above average returns, why would they tell you? And would the market then not capture that information and make it obsolete.

I was listening to Mike Norman the other day on YouTube where he constantly sells his courses about trading and how to pick stocks.....although the psychology part of trading must be super important, like poker.

Any answers would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Trading is difficult, but it is not impossible. You can improve your chances of success by taking the time to prepare and by having enough money to fund your initial trading account. A great deal would depend on how resourceful, adaptable and a quick learner you can be.
It could take months, years or a lifetime to build the psychology and finding the system that works for you.

This is true
Paper trading is nothing like play poker
but without that emotional roller coaster!!!
the experience.
it is not the same.
Here is a stock that will tie your stomach in knots with huge swings in less than the blink of an eye.
cut your teeth on this one and you can survive anything
SYMBL: CRC
You can make or lose thousands on this one in less than an hour.
No I will not disclose how I break this one down and when I jump in and out.

Is paper trading realistic though? How can you simulate how your orders would get filled in a real trading environment on paper?

Paper trading as referred to here is actually trading on a trading simulator. So the mechanics are the exact same as real trading. Simulator fills can sometimes be unrealistic however depending on the simulator. The fills and slippage will be different however it is usually close enough to get what you need out of it.

If a trading section to 2+2 would it be frequently used?
I've jus started getting into trading and there's so much to cover. If there's enough interest I 'd love some sort of place to ping ideas in the financial world.

There really is so much to it and coming as a poker player into the financial market is a lot more complex. Knowing how to create your strategy offline and online is critical aswell as never going bust.

The key parts to trading is exchanging prices. Prices changed based on information and your trading decisions are based on information you gather. The key to being successful is getting quality information and being able to process it like the market does.
Finding quality info (1) and processing (2) are separate entities and can be strategized in itself.

There are so many questions I ask myself about these 2.

Where is the best place to get information?
How much does that information influence?
What I am missing?
What information is getting ready to be seen?
What information does the market see I don't?
How can I see what the market sees?

I could go on...

I love learning about trading so if I could make it my work and passion this would suit me.
Right now I'm trying to absorb as much as I can and discover the best strategies to implement.

Another question I had. What resources do most people use which they class related to their trading?
I was looking for best trading journal software for instance.
Not sure which one to get


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