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02-23-2011 , 07:16 PM
Imagine the prices when 100% of the population is invested in it! I could easily see it at $1500/oz
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02-23-2011 , 07:28 PM
wait until 100% of the population buys it on margin. 5000 / oz imo
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02-23-2011 , 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RikaKazak
I know I'm going to be looked down upon, ripped upon, or flamed in this thread for posting my thoughts, but here they are.

Silver is a bubble.

(The mere fact that the BFI community on 2+2 has not come in and ripped these arguments to shreds is cause for concern. I remember in the real estate bubble when people posted things like, "you can buy now and sell for 100% profit the next day on ebay"...but it was, "you can sign the paper work on the condo today, then in 6 months when the condo is finished, you can sell it for a 30% profit"...you saw that all the time in vegas...greater fool investing is NOT sound investing imo)

That's it, my opinion is as simple as that. I don't know where it will top out at, I don't know when, but imo, silver is a bubble. It could be topping now, it could go to $80 an ounce, I don't know. But if there's one thing I've learned from watching the internet bubble, then the real estate bubble, is you can't put logic to where the price will/can be. (that's why I'm not shorting it, I have no idea how high it can go)

It's much like playing poker vs. fishes. Sometimes their actions are horribly illogical, and the only way we know how to play against their "play" is from experience. Example, FR NL400, a 52/3 shoves 80 bbs from UTG. When I first started playing, I thought it was a "misclick," after all, opening 80 bbs from UTG is idiotic. But as most regulars know, this is almost always AA or KK being funny/silly/stupid.

And before anyone tries to discredit me and think I don't know "their" side of the argument, I've read Peter Schiff's books, I've watched stellaconcepts on youtube. I've read "investing in gold and silver" by Micheal Maloney. I've listened to Peter Schiff Radio, and watched Gerald Celente on king world news.
Irregardless of the conclusion you landed on, getting there in this manner with this logic is incredibly fishy.
Silver Quote
02-23-2011 , 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RikaKazak
Well I was correct in getting flamed

I'll answer some questions, but then I'm out of this thread for a while, and will return after the bubble has popped.

1.) What would I rather own, silver or paper currency? How about a third option, and choose neither. If you knew anything about me, you'd know I'm a real estate guy (who does own some passively managed index funds, like VTI). I prefer to own income producing assets as opposed to cash or silver or any other commodity/currency.

2.) Why can't I predict the price of the metal? I already explained this, but I'll say it again. It's a bubble and people are acting irrationally, I can't predict the price movement of an irrational item. Some people who predicted the real estate bubble, admitted they couldn't predict the top (Peter Schiff) I'll go on record with silver and say the same thing. I'm not shorting it because I don't know how high/low it will go. And it could easily double and wipe me out. But it's still just a shiny metal, and holding it for the next 40-50 years is silly. Again, I'd rather invest in income producing assets; as opposed to gambling/speculating, which is what silver is right now.

3.) I was FLAMED when I said real estate was a bubble, and I refused to invest for capital gains, and I just continued basing the price I'd pay on the rent I could get. So I expect to get flamed in this thread again.



Enjoy holding your shiny metal, I'll continue to hold my income producing assets and in 40 years we'll see who did better.
Another pretty terrible post based mainly around anecdotal results oriented thinking without addressing any of the core arguments raised in this thread. Just having that "hunch" about 27o because the last time you played it you flopped a boat. Word.
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02-23-2011 , 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Pride of Cucamonga
did you sell because your target sell price was reached & you wanted to lock-in profits, or did you simply sell Plat & Palladium & put that money into gold &/or silver because you thought the upside to those metals was greater than the platinum metals?
Profit taking based on a previous target.

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I haven't bothered to figure out what the historically ratio is between gold & platinum over the years, but I'm guessing it's significantly higher than it is currently.
It is actually not.

1792-2002 mean GSR ratio is 31.32, we currently have a GSR of 44.02.

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Perhaps it's folly to fight the herd (or is it genius?) but gold & silver are ripping it up, but not so much platinum/palladium.
Well palladium gained over 100% in two quarters. I don't want to go too much into platinum and palladium itt.
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Earlier in this thread (or maybe the gold thread over in economic forum) someone mentioned the affect that billions of Chinese & Indians would have on metal prices as populations in those countries moved from poor>middle class & middle class>rich. As their wealth increases their standard of living & wants / needs will increase, meaning they will buy more stuff, more cars, computers, cell phones, etc.
China's platinum imports go up 40% while silver imports increase 400%.

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Won't that necessarily mean higher platinum & palladium prices?
Study the pressures on the three metals, past present and future.

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Those two metals seem to be being ignored at the moment by masses & mass media, but why?
When is the last time you ever heard the mass media giving solid coverage on platinum and palladium? Uranium prices? I don't think that particular logical connection is very significant. But I wouldn't mind taking a position again in Pt or Pd if things changed and I currently have a large position in uranium miners/producers/explorers.

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Similarly, rhodium is a metal I'd really like to buy, but I have never found a way to invest in rhodium bullion.
Pool accounts is an option if you have some gambling money, there aren't any rhodium mines but (believe it or not) you can buy physical rhodium but I have noticed the premiums being a little rough.
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02-23-2011 , 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mugatu668
wait until 100% of the population buys it on margin. 5000 / oz imo
There is enough bullion for everyone on earth to have 0.20 ounces of fine silver and a few grams of scrap.

Share imo.
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02-24-2011 , 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrmusicrecorder
There is enough bullion for everyone on earth to have 0.20 ounces of fine silver and a few grams of scrap.

Share imo.
So what is you're target price for silver, 2011, 2012, & then 3-5 yr outlook?
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02-24-2011 , 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by verneer
On the flip side, what scenarios would cause silver/gold to go down?
Bump.
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02-24-2011 , 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by verneer
Bump.
A deflationary collapse.
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02-24-2011 , 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Pride of Cucamonga
So what is you're target price for silver, 2011, 2012, & then 3-5 yr outlook?
My price targets are $50, $75 and $125. I will take 10% @ 50, 25% @ 75 and another 25% @ 125, but it all depends on the environment for anything further out.

40+ 2011
60+ 2012
125+2013

The pressures on the dollar can certainly exacerbate things in the pm market an cause these targets to be child's play. I like to stay conservative with my volatile assets.
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02-24-2011 , 10:07 PM
Dave Madge director of sales at the Royal Canadian Mint.

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“Demand right now for silver is through the roof and it shows no signs of slowing at this point. Sourcing silver is becoming very difficult. We are competing with a great many players when it comes to purchasing silver and many of these players are bidding the price higher.”

“Our advantage is that we have had long-term relationships with our suppliers and that has helped us in this situation. We have been able to leverage off of those relationships to get supply, but it still remains a big challenge sourcing material. We’re looking at ways of mitigating our risk regarding supply of silver.

We are anticipating it to become even more difficult to secure supplies in the future. This is based on what we are seeing firsthand and what our suppliers are telling us. We work closely with these banks to secure silver and they tell us there is a lot of competition.”

“I think you are going to see the premiums go up in order to secure silver. At some point some players will be priced out of the market. I don’t think this is a short-term situation, I think there are a lot of issues going forward and this may be the new norm.”
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02-26-2011 , 01:28 PM
I've been long silver for over a year for reasons mentioned in OP--parity, inflation, industrial use. From a macro standpoint, QE2/M1 vs real CPI looks favorable in the 3-5 year range, assuming China doesn't hike the **** out of their rates. I think while industrial use is the strongest factor for the continued success of silver, it also carries with it the greatest risks. Silver is perhaps the most effective material conductor out there, but rising prices have obviously shifted at least some focus onto cheaper alternatives. There's definitely still opportunity for growth--I'm still long slw, slv--but as someone mentioned, something like palladium potential carries greater upside than say silver or copper, at least in the more immediate term.
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02-26-2011 , 10:22 PM
Emerging middle classes in China and INdia will probably be keen on silver as a bullion/savings vehicle.
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02-28-2011 , 04:25 PM
Great video explaining why you should stay as far away from the iShares SLV ETF as possible. If you want to invest in silver, buy the physical metal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-dBQd16cvg
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03-04-2011 , 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Valhalla1
Great video explaining why you should stay as far away from the iShares SLV ETF as possible. If you want to invest in silver, buy the physical metal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-dBQd16cvg
Im so glad you posted this THANK YOU, I was just looking into SLV and GLD
Could someone please suggest the best way to get my paws on some physical? If its available locally what would be the best way to go about finding that out.
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03-04-2011 , 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Backspin20
Im so glad you posted this THANK YOU, I was just looking into SLV and GLD
Could someone please suggest the best way to get my paws on some physical? If its available locally what would be the best way to go about finding that out.
Try googling local bullion dealers but in my experience you can expect to pay a bit more. You can check out kitco or other sites for delivery. Not sure which is best for prices.

There are ETF's that are backed by physical. You can check out some of Sprott's such as PHYS.
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03-04-2011 , 03:56 AM
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...lver&st=Search

Kinda surprised this story hasnt been mentioned.
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03-04-2011 , 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...lver&st=Search

Kinda surprised this story hasnt been mentioned.
I think it's something that's been known about for a little while now. The whole PM game is just a ridiculous con/joke.
Silver Quote
03-04-2011 , 09:22 AM
Has anyone looked at the sympathy between silver prices and hi end electronics stocks? I'm a noob, but I know a lot of hi end electronics feature silver components in the circuitry. This might offer reason as to why a surging middle class would stimulate the silver market?
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03-04-2011 , 12:51 PM
the SLV prospectus looks standard to me
people raising red flags are paranoid...

lots of ETFs have similar clauses in its contract
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03-04-2011 , 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by r3vbr
the SLV prospectus looks standard to me
people raising red flags are paranoid...

lots of ETFs have similar clauses in its contract
Just because a lot of ETF's have similar clauses doesn't mean that they are safe. In fact, it may be a good reason to stay away from a lot of them.

Taleb mentions in one of his books that a lot of brokers/money managers/economists make this mistake all the time. They make bad bets or allow themselves to get hustled. Then when things finally go bad they can claim that they were just following industry standards etc..

"I might be paranoid, but it doesn't mean that somebody isn't out to get me."
Silver Quote
03-05-2011 , 03:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...lver&st=Search

Kinda surprised this story hasnt been mentioned.
I love silvers aspects, but when I read the thousands of articles out there, they are 99% complete BS. Your article states "last Thursday, the price of silver fell $1.50 per ounce in less than an hour before recovering."

Well who the **** cares. When silver goes up $1.50 nobody is crying MANIPULATION. Sounds like a daytrader who was trying to make a quick buck and has no real interest in silver is pissed off he got shaken out.
Silver Quote
03-05-2011 , 07:41 PM
looking at the price of gold wrt that of silver at stockcharts.com (go and enter $GOLD:$SILVER in the symbol search box),



it looks like silver is the one overpriced vs the historic price ratio

what am i missing?
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03-05-2011 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaqh
looking at the price of gold wrt that of silver at stockcharts.com (go and enter $GOLD:$SILVER in the symbol search box),



it looks like silver is the one overpriced vs the historic price ratio

what am i missing?
Historical parity doesn't just include the last 3 years. Expand your time frame significantly--Hunt bros mass purchase is probably an outlier. I think it's definitely reasonable to think the recent comparable performance is due in large part to a historical business cycle lag silver has had relative to gold, and as someone mentioned earlier, the growing acceptance of silver as collateral, which has counteracted recent IB puts on silver.
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