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Old 01-22-2012, 03:21 PM   #126
Conz
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Re: The Shark Tank

Bed Bath and Beyond sells that "Rock-it" audio thing for $20. definitely picking one up this week. even the sound quality isn't great, I still think that's my favorite invention from the show
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:00 PM   #127
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Re: The Shark Tank

If these guys are billionaires and egomaniacs, do you really think they care too much about having to make a $50,000 "investment" every 3 weeks in exchange for getting 60 minutes of face-time during primetime hours on a top 3 network?

I think all of them would still do it even if they knew ahead of time they would be guaranteed a 0% ROI on all their steaks.
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:52 PM   #128
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Re: The Shark Tank

Presumably someone already posted this segment of a poker player:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5apnv...eature=related
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:19 PM   #129
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Re: The Shark Tank

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I think you'd be surprised how little VC/angel's make. It's only an average of about 30%, because more often than not they buy into failures. Furthermore, they are actually aiming for a 5-10x return not 50-100x. In fact, if it's close enough to exit, they'll take significantly less than 5x. Most of these shark deals already have proven sales. With the reduced risk, they don't need such a big payday when it hits. All they really need to do is beat the markets, so they would be ecstatic to be stuck with a mere "5-10x upside potential."

Though I have definitely seen deals made where there obviously wasn't much upside, I think the EZVIP has very good potential. No way they top out at 5m, if it's done right.

There's a number of other dynamics at play. Part of it is just a game. A lot of these deals never make it through due diligence, so what you see on the screen doesn't mean much; if you're a shark and you just sit there waiting for the big play, you're gonna get galfond'd; the sharks are there for ego, not to make money; they want to be seen making deals, both for the viewing audience and also the other sharks, etc., etc.
You can't convince me that these guys are aiming for 5-10x. They should be aiming for 50-100x, know that a number will fail, and that they net out around 30-40%. I mean you need a pretty good success rate if your homeruns are 5x to maintain those returns.

Yeah I just read the post about only 1 in 8 making it through diligence. That definitely changes the approach, and you're right, it is a game. These "sharks" are building their brand. I mean I certainly didn't know about Herjavec before this show and now I think he's a beast (at least he pimps out on his Twitter account). So I guess from that perspective it's smart to develop an image and put your money where your mouth is.

That said, i'm willing to bet that these are at the very minor end of these guys' investment portfolio, even of their angel portfolios.

Ezra
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:27 PM   #130
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Re: The Shark Tank

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Bed Bath and Beyond sells that "Rock-it" audio thing for $20. definitely picking one up this week. even the sound quality isn't great, I still think that's my favorite invention from the show
Never heard of this before so I looked it up. I don't get it. Besides the fact its kinda cool why wouldn't you just buy a small speaker with better audio quality?
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Old 01-22-2012, 10:07 PM   #131
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Re: The Shark Tank

do they sell speakers that small worth $20? doubt it. plus like you said, it's cool.
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:14 AM   #132
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Re: The Shark Tank

They get excited because they are getting free advertising on network television. With lots of the ideas they already know what needs to be done and have the contact/infrastructure to make it happen with relative ease.
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Old 01-23-2012, 12:50 AM   #133
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Re: The Shark Tank

EZVIP definitely has huge potential. I would not be shocked if that were a $30 million dollar company at some point. I agree though every Angel I have ever talked to is looking for 30x+ potential.
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Old 01-23-2012, 01:16 AM   #134
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Re: The Shark Tank

I should have never responded to Ezra on that point. This argument is a waste of space. My bad.

Last edited by tetsuya; 01-23-2012 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 01-23-2012, 01:30 AM   #135
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Re: The Shark Tank

That's the logic I was told by the head of a Las Vegas angel group. A big problem is that unless it goes boom it's very hard to get the actual profits as a private investor by selling. They are only expecting about 15% of their deals to pay out so its subsidizing all their losses and expecting about a 25% return per year. Obviously there are lots of different deals and metrics but getting paid on the homeruns is definitely the logic I have heard. Im sure 10x deals happen but that wouldn't be enough to justify losing 85% of the time.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:33 AM   #136
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Re: The Shark Tank

Does it annoy anyone else when the sharks ***** about people being greedy? I mean seriously... I would never under any circumstances want to be partnered with someone (on a project they would run ldo) who wasn't greedy and savvy. Them sucking at negotiating and giving me a huge stake of the company for peanuts is great--but not if I can't immediately turn around, fire them, and replace them with someone with business sense.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:00 AM   #137
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Re: The Shark Tank

I'll be honest I haven't watched every episode of the show but I've watched a bunch and I just don't remember any time feeling the business owner got screwed. Damon made me giggle last episode when he said (to the business owner) "You're being extremely greedy... And I love it!"
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Old 01-23-2012, 02:31 PM   #138
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Re: The Shark Tank

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I'll be honest I haven't watched every episode of the show but I've watched a bunch and I just don't remember any time feeling the business owner got screwed. Damon made me giggle last episode when he said (to the business owner) "You're being extremely greedy... And I love it!"
He didn't say that until the end. At the beginning of the negotiation he said it was offensive I believe. "Mr Wonderful" berates business owners all the time for 'being too greedy'. I just find it annoying.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:05 PM   #139
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Re: The Shark Tank

There are lots of annoying things in the show. They have to try to make things interesting by making sure the sharks have loud personalities.

Cuban is the best because it is clear that he has the most money available by a very wide margin.
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:51 AM   #140
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Re: The Shark Tank

anybody see cuban own mr. salesman? so obv he was going to do that.
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:13 AM   #141
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Re: The Shark Tank

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anybody see cuban own mr. salesman? so obv he was going to do that.
I was just wondering what to do to get out of that situation?
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:27 AM   #142
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Re: The Shark Tank

why not just take the deal since it was what the guy was originally looking for and it was pretty obv he wasn't going to get **** from barbara.
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:29 AM   #143
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Re: The Shark Tank

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why not just take the deal since it was what the guy was originally looking for and it was pretty obv he wasn't going to get **** from barbara.
Yea he blew that one pretty bad. But Cuban is pretty bad-ass when making deals....
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Old 01-28-2012, 06:13 AM   #144
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Re: The Shark Tank

I wouldn't mind seeing Barbara replaced. She hardly ever does anything but pass.
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:22 PM   #145
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Re: The Shark Tank

how many of you bought a cat photo today? i sure didn't. that's a "cute idea" i guess, but i cant believe Cuban jumped in on it
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:06 PM   #146
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Re: The Shark Tank

Think Cuban was investing in the guy rather than the idea.

Cuban is such a boss
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:33 PM   #147
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Re: The Shark Tank

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Cuban is the best because it is clear that he has the most money available by a very wide margin.
I don't see any of them not having the cash to finance anything that pops up on the show without even noticing it.

If we are talking net worth I'd say Kevin is higher than Cuban.
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:39 PM   #148
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Re: The Shark Tank

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I don't see any of them not having the cash to finance anything that pops up on the show without even noticing it.

If we are talking net worth I'd say Kevin is higher than Cuban.
You are wrong, and by a factor of 10.
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:50 PM   #149
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Re: The Shark Tank

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You are wrong, and by a factor of 10.
celebritynetworth.com?

Kevin sold a business for $3b, but is only worth $300m?

Cuban is $2.5b. Holy crap, Barbara is $1.5b

Kevin Harrington has $450m.

Daymond and Robert are only worth $100m. now I'll never sniff anything close to that, but is that really enough to qualify as a shark?

Foxworthy is also worth $100m which speaks volumes for his demographic. they paid that man $100 million to be horrendously unfunny for all these years.
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Old 01-28-2012, 03:53 PM   #150
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Re: The Shark Tank

According to Forbes, Cuban is worth 2.3B
http://www.forbes.com/profile/mark-cuban/

O'Leary is estimated to be worth around 300 million. He refuses to tell people how much he's worth though. Sounds a little like Trump in that by not saying how much you're worth, you can pretend to be much wealthier than you really are.

"I think it adds to the mystique," he says of his refusal to quantify his net worth.
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