Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Business, Finance, and Investing Making money, investing in markets, and running businesses

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2009, 07:20 AM   #76
Clayton
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Clayton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 29,481
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Country you live in - USA
Income - 10k-20k per month from poker
Risk Tolerance - not sure what this means
Timeframe for investment - unsure whats optimal
Debt - none right now

===============================

apoligies as this doesnt directly relate to the topic at hand, but i figure its worth a shot.

basically i have around 100k sitting in my bank and 125k sitting in my poker bankroll, and I'd like to figure out a way to redistribute my finances such that i have a working portfolio and not (ONLINE POKER+CHECKING ACCOUNT).

any tips would be appreciated, and that includes just a link or a book recommendation, or even a reputable company with people who will do this for me for a fee.

i am ridiculously inexperienced at everything related to BFI so consider me a blank slate and be gentle :O i want to learn!

thanks!

Last edited by Clayton; 08-02-2009 at 07:25 AM.
Clayton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2009, 02:13 PM   #77
NicholasJ
veteran
 
NicholasJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ZEF SIDE
Posts: 2,724
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear500 View Post
My suggestion to everyone is never do this. All retirement accounts will offer a cash option (or they should) that should be exercised, that way at a later time you can move the money out of cash into available funds.

Why never? You can only make up contributions in the last tax year. So you will be limited to $10k total (2009 + 2008). You've missed out entirely on 2006 and 2007's contributions of $8000 total.
It is a Roth IRA, so the contributions would NOT be tax-deductible. What makes it better than any other form of investment/debt-reduction? Why is it so bad that I haven't contributed?
NicholasJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2009, 02:17 PM   #78
NicholasJ
veteran
 
NicholasJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ZEF SIDE
Posts: 2,724
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
Country you live in - USA
Income - 10k-20k per month from poker
Risk Tolerance - not sure what this means
Timeframe for investment - unsure whats optimal
Debt - none right now

===============================

apoligies as this doesnt directly relate to the topic at hand, but i figure its worth a shot.

basically i have around 100k sitting in my bank and 125k sitting in my poker bankroll, and I'd like to figure out a way to redistribute my finances such that i have a working portfolio and not (ONLINE POKER+CHECKING ACCOUNT).

any tips would be appreciated, and that includes just a link or a book recommendation, or even a reputable company with people who will do this for me for a fee.

i am ridiculously inexperienced at everything related to BFI so consider me a blank slate and be gentle :O i want to learn!

thanks!
For starters, I would take most of the money in your checking and put it in a money market account or orange savings account. At least you earn something on it while you figure out what to do with no risk. I use ING Direct. Its free and there are no minimums or penalties afaik. Currently earning only 1-2%, but that's better than nothing.

Last edited by NicholasJ; 08-02-2009 at 02:24 PM.
NicholasJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2009, 04:50 PM   #79
Clayton
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Clayton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 29,481
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicholasJ View Post
For starters, I would take most of the money in your checking and put it in a money market account or orange savings account. At least you earn something on it while you figure out what to do with no risk. I use ING Direct. Its free and there are no minimums or penalties afaik. Currently earning only 1-2%, but that's better than nothing.
which of these options are you referring to? http://home.ingdirect.com/open/open.asp
Clayton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2009, 12:40 PM   #80
nuclear500
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
nuclear500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 9,305
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicholasJ View Post
It is a Roth IRA, so the contributions would NOT be tax-deductible. What makes it better than any other form of investment/debt-reduction? Why is it so bad that I haven't contributed?
Quote:
You've missed out entirely on 2006 and 2007's contributions of $8000 total.

If there are genuine other uses for the money and its not going to sit there not working for you, then there are reasons not to contribute. But if you've done it 'because it started sucking' you aren't thinking long term, which is what retirement investing is all about. You are performance chasing.

"Its doing well, so I'm going to invest" and you buy at the height of the market. "Its doing badly so I'm going to not invest". You miss out on the market lows entirely unless you are some miracle market timer or get lucky. This might be an understandable approach if it were individual stocks, but thats why index investing or investing in mutual funds is the way 99.9% of people should invest.

Either take a Dollar Cost Averaging approach or a lump sum approach and stick with it.
nuclear500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2009, 01:28 PM   #81
thylacine
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,029
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear500 View Post
Either take a Dollar Cost Averaging approach or a lump sum approach and stick with it.
What do you mean by `a lump sum approach'?
thylacine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2009, 02:18 PM   #82
nuclear500
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
nuclear500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 9,305
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by thylacine View Post
What do you mean by `a lump sum approach'?
Either one giant $5000 lump sum at the beginning, middle, or end of year.

Or I'm starting to think a quarterly approach, or even three times a year with the appropriate dollar amounts so it matches the $5000 by the last lump sum, might be a way to go.

There have been some limited studies that show unless multiple lump sums are timed to a market bottom or market top, there is practically no difference long term between lumpings or averaging. You can do a 'study' yourself even. Historical NAV data is there, just a matter of putting it together.

No matter how you decide to do it, stick to it.
nuclear500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2009, 02:24 PM   #83
suzy89222
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,204
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

country i live in: usa
income: varies a lot, online poker player, last year i made just over 1 million. so far this year, i have made over 700k. (obviously around half of that went to taxes)
net worth 1,700,000
risk tolerance: unsure
debt: none
amount to invest : 250k, will be more soon

i am a childless 35 year old woman with no future plan outside of poker. i have 100k in the stock market (s&p500), 430k tied up in trust deed loans (getting back half of that later this year so will have more that i wont know what to do with), i have 100k equity in a condo im renting out, bought a house for 675k 3 months ago, had to put down 40% ( 270k). putting 200k into house for remodeling, furniture, etc. should i get a home equity loan?? i am an investment idiot, have no idea what to do.
suzy89222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2009, 06:23 PM   #84
NicholasJ
veteran
 
NicholasJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ZEF SIDE
Posts: 2,724
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
which of these options are you referring to? http://home.ingdirect.com/open/open.asp
The "orange savings account" but i don't know what the "electric orange" is.
NicholasJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2009, 06:58 PM   #85
ArturiusX
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ArturiusX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,114
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy89222 View Post
country i live in: usa
income: varies a lot, online poker player, last year i made just over 1 million. so far this year, i have made over 700k. (obviously around half of that went to taxes)
net worth 1,700,000
risk tolerance: unsure
debt: none
amount to invest : 250k, will be more soon

i am a childless 35 year old woman with no future plan outside of poker. i have 100k in the stock market (s&p500), 430k tied up in trust deed loans (getting back half of that later this year so will have more that i wont know what to do with), i have 100k equity in a condo im renting out, bought a house for 675k 3 months ago, had to put down 40% ( 270k). putting 200k into house for remodeling, furniture, etc. should i get a home equity loan?? i am an investment idiot, have no idea what to do.
You need to be more clear with what you're after. What is your financial goals? What variance in your finances are you willing to pay for more money?
ArturiusX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2009, 08:01 PM   #86
suzy89222
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,204
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturiusX View Post
You need to be more clear with what you're after. What is your financial goals? What variance in your finances are you willing to pay for more money?
dont really know. guess i should figure it out.
suzy89222 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2009, 11:32 PM   #87
nuclear500
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
nuclear500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 9,305
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy89222 View Post
country i live in: usa
income: varies a lot, online poker player, last year i made just over 1 million. so far this year, i have made over 700k. (obviously around half of that went to taxes)
net worth 1,700,000
risk tolerance: unsure
debt: none
amount to invest : 250k, will be more soon

i am a childless 35 year old woman with no future plan outside of poker. i have 100k in the stock market (s&p500), 430k tied up in trust deed loans (getting back half of that later this year so will have more that i wont know what to do with), i have 100k equity in a condo im renting out, bought a house for 675k 3 months ago, had to put down 40% ( 270k). putting 200k into house for remodeling, furniture, etc. should i get a home equity loan?? i am an investment idiot, have no idea what to do.
Don't want to derail...but if you bought a $675k house 3 months ago...what was it worth 2 years ago?

You should consider a SEP-IRA as your first investment vehicle for retirement. https://personal.vanguard.com/us/acc...iewContent.jsp
nuclear500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 11:16 PM   #88
Saxophone
grinder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 536
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

* Country you live in : FRANCE

* Income : 10k - 20k per month from poker

* Risk Tolerance : low/medium

* Timeframe for investment : lifetime

* Debt : none

* Any other information you might have that would help us

* amount to invest : $15K


I am a student in france and im going back in college very soon, i ll play a lot less poker and i see the dollar losing value against the euros each day (this is scaring me a lot), im wondering if i should cash out and invest 15K (I wont need it if i go on a downswing). I could potentially add some thousand of dollars each month.

My financial goal would be to have a "safety fund" that would never touch except if very big emergency. I would like it to grow into some big dollars.
Saxophone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 03:34 PM   #89
miktau
newbie
 
miktau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 25
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Country you live in - USA (NYC)
Income - Student (10k yr)
Risk Tolerance - Moderate
Timeframe for Investment - See Below
Debt - None
Amount to Invest - 20k?

Long time lurker, first time poster. Basically I'm 18, heading off to college next year. Luckily I have a ridiculously awesome full ride (Macaulay Honors at CUNY) that will permit me to live in Manhattan rent and tuition free and provide me with a number of extras like a small stipend (books, travel later) and macbook. All I really have to pay is food and entertainment which won't be more than a few grand which my parents are covering. I'm planning on grad school and maybe a year or two of travel/work in between so I need to have some of it liquid in 4-5 years. I also wanted to get started young saving for retirement so I wouldn't mind socking away a small bit. I have a part time market research job lined up for next year along with poker income (micro stakes ldo), ebay etc. so I'll be making maybe 8-10k this year (hopefully). 20k is currently in ING account, with some of it still locked up in CD's from 1-2 years ago earning 4-5%, although its all coming due really soon. Oh and I also have maybe 10k in savings bond from my birth but parents won't let me touch it as it was all gifts and not earned like the rest (some of it's doing well like 5%, and the rest is still better than ING). Parents are saving my undergrad college fund for grad, which is good because it was down 40%+ the last time I checked, don't plan on touching this for 4-5 years. Basically I'd like to make some of my liquid cash grow a good bit over the next four years to help with grad school and travel while taking some consideration for retirement. Sorry for the long read and thanks for the consideration.

Cheers,
Mike
miktau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 07:37 PM   #90
ArturiusX
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ArturiusX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,114
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

miktau:

You're in a strong position to invest in shares, it looks like all your expenses are covered, you have some emergency money in bonds already, and you're young and have time to let your investment see fruition.

I'd invest in a diversified index fund, vanguard offers them, maybe put 25% into mid cap index, 25% into a balanced US, 25% International value and 25% international growth. Then sit on it for 10 years and re-assess later. Don't look into the swings, just keep your head down, focus on school, and let time do its work.
ArturiusX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 09:02 PM   #91
miktau
newbie
 
miktau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 25
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Thanks for the advice, I was thinking something along these lines but wasn't really sure exactly.
miktau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2009, 03:11 AM   #92
Adreno
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 147
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Country you live in: Finland
Income: $50 - $150k / year from poker
Risk Tolerance: Very high
Timeframe for investment: 10+ years
Debt: none

Looking to invest a portion of my bankroll into highest EV possible. I don't know much about investing but after some serious googling it seems the highest long term gains come from buying stock directly (is this correct? correct for amateur stock traders also?) Right now I have about $10k in stock funds but I got the understanding the ~1.5% yearly costs of stock funds are not worth the value of having professionals actively trading stock for you. Is there some analytical system to learn the type of trading where you buy stock directly from small companies and then sit on it for 20 years?

Are there some alternatives to stock, when looking at EV for long term investments?
Adreno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 04:51 AM   #93
THAKID
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
THAKID's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,740
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

miktau... my advice would be put all your money in a 4 year cd.... your life/plans/ambitions might change alot by the time your ready to graduate... but you don't really need to be messing with that money until then
THAKID is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 12:53 PM   #94
ArturiusX
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ArturiusX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,114
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adreno View Post
Country you live in: Finland
Income: $50 - $150k / year from poker
Risk Tolerance: Very high
Timeframe for investment: 10+ years
Debt: none

Looking to invest a portion of my bankroll into highest EV possible. I don't know much about investing but after some serious googling it seems the highest long term gains come from buying stock directly (is this correct? correct for amateur stock traders also?) Right now I have about $10k in stock funds but I got the understanding the ~1.5% yearly costs of stock funds are not worth the value of having professionals actively trading stock for you. Is there some analytical system to learn the type of trading where you buy stock directly from small companies and then sit on it for 20 years?

Are there some alternatives to stock, when looking at EV for long term investments?
You could invest in high return bonds as well, with a good chance of default. Although bonds for the average man are an even bigger sucker play than high risk stocks.

I'd maybe look to invest internationally in riskier emerging markets as a % (maybe like 30%?), and put another 20% in a few up and coming stock picks, then put the rest in an index in your home country. Don't do China though, its too late for that market, its already bubbling and its a luckfest whether you can time it properly. Instead look for something more under exposed but with potential; south american funds, asian countries other than China, etc. Do your research, come up with an idea, balance your portfolio, then pull the trigger. Let time work its magic.
ArturiusX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 02:56 AM   #95
Phoenix Rising
adept
 
Phoenix Rising's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,137
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Country: USA
Income: Poker - Just starting to play again after ~4 months (spent time abroad), let's assume very conservative $3k/month for the time being.
Risk Tolerance: Moderate
Timeframe for Investment: Unsure, see below
Debt: $0
Amount to Invest: $100k
Age: 22

I just graduated college, went on a 2 month backpacking trip to AUS/NZ and I'm back in the States with $100k to my name and no job. I think my 'big plan' involves finding some kind of job/internship (which I've started to hunt down already), trying to print out money playing poker around 3 hours a day, and learning as much as I can about real estate. I live in Southern California, where foreclosures and such are abundant (and are going to be moreso in the future) so I figure focusing on RE knowledge could potentially make me a lot of money.

For now, I have around 15% of the 100% in a portfolio of ETF's that I chose in April 2007, which I haven't touched since save for selling my bond fund. 21% is in a money market right now, I've got a Roth IRA that I've been contributing to since I was 17 (which I didn't include in the $100k figure), and the rest is online/out on stake/etc.

Right now I don't have a place to live - I got back a few days ago and am searching for a place while living at home, and other than rent expense my only expenses would be cell, food, gas, various insurances, and entertainment. My poker income should be able to easily cover that provided I put in enough volume. I'm wondering if any of you more experienced guys would be willing to chat/ take a look at my ETF portfolio. Ideally I'd like to get my foot in the door with RE with the money I have, I joined my local RE club today and plan to go to the next meeting and have been searching/emailing about RE jobs/internships, so if anyone has experience there that would be amazing. I'm not sure if I have enough capital to get in the door though. Thanks for reading and in advance, thanks for the replies.

Kevin
Phoenix Rising is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 07:58 PM   #96
Adreno
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 147
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturiusX View Post
I'd maybe look to invest internationally in riskier emerging markets as a % (maybe like 30%?), and put another 20% in a few up and coming stock picks, then put the rest in an index in your home country. Don't do China though, its too late for that market, its already bubbling and its a luckfest whether you can time it properly. Instead look for something more under exposed but with potential; south american funds, asian countries other than China, etc. Do your research, come up with an idea, balance your portfolio, then pull the trigger. Let time work its magic.
First off: THANK YOU

Reading that a ton of questions popped into my head, I'd appreciate it if you bother to answer:

1. Why index in my home country (vs. index of a specific country or continent)
2. If I want to buy stock of a specific area, say south america, which is best for me in EV sense:
a) actively managed stock fund with 2% yearly fees
b) index fund with 0.5% yearly fees
3. What do you mean up and coming stock picks?
4. I was trying to find Finnish companies that offer index funds in Asia/south america, and then only one I could find was:

https://www.evli.com/web/FI/en/priva...ds/equity/JAQI

I could of course invest in index funds located in other countries but I'm sure things will be a lot easier for me if I invest with an entity that is operating from Finland (apparantly EVLI, which operates from Finland, invests in AXA Rosenberg's Japan index fund, which I'm guessing operates from Japan).

+ Asia (non china)
+ Low fees
+ High risk

I thought I might just shove 20% into it, what do you think?
Adreno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 09:09 PM   #97
nuclear500
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
nuclear500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 9,305
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Rising View Post
and the rest is online/out on stake/etc
Unless the money is immediately attainable, it is not liquid and therefore you should not consider it part of your available cash. In fact, I wouldn't even consider it at all. There exists the chance it will never come back to you. Keep track of it, but don't even think about using it otherwise. You might say the same about other investments but usually people sell before they lose everything so they get SOMETHING back.


If you are considering RE then you should probably NOT invest this money in anything other then bond funds or something else that is easily available and safe. Maybe even just keep it immediately liquid in a money market account. I don't quite know how RE investing works thats what spex' thread is for.
nuclear500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 09:14 PM   #98
nuclear500
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
nuclear500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 9,305
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adreno View Post
First off: THANK YOU

Reading that a ton of questions popped into my head, I'd appreciate it if you bother to answer:

1. Why index in my home country (vs. index of a specific country or continent)
In the style of Buffett, stick to what you know best.
Quote:
2. If I want to buy stock of a specific area, say south america, which is best for me in EV sense:
a) actively managed stock fund with 2% yearly fees
b) index fund with 0.5% yearly fees
Depends. The great term of Poker and investing. If an actively managed fund can achieve greater then 2.5% of the index fund, then the active fund is the way to go. But the question is: will the active fund do it over the long term? Many do not.
nuclear500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 11:34 PM   #99
Adreno
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 147
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear500 View Post
In the style of Buffett, stick to what you know best.
Well, I don't know about the stock index of Finland a single bit more than I know of the stock index of Japan

Quote:
Depends. The great term of Poker and investing. If an actively managed fund can achieve greater then 2.5% of the index fund, then the active fund is the way to go. But the question is: will the active fund do it over the long term? Many do not.
The way I look at it, and I don't know if it's correct, is that stock funds and other big investors play poker against each other and pay rake from every hand. Actively managed funds play more hands so they pay more rake than passively managed funds. As a group passively managed funds make more profit in the long run because they pay less rake. Because of the huge variance in stock market, a regular person like myself can't really know which players remain winners in the long run (making more profit than their comparison index). I should have better EV by staking passive players who pay less rake. Is that right?
Adreno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 12:10 AM   #100
nuclear500
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
nuclear500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 9,305
Re: The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adreno View Post
The way I look at it, and I don't know if it's correct, is that stock funds and other big investors play poker against each other and pay rake from every hand. Actively managed funds play more hands so they pay more rake than passively managed funds. As a group passively managed funds make more profit in the long run because they pay less rake. Because of the huge variance in stock market, a regular person like myself can't really know which players remain winners in the long run (making more profit than their comparison index). I should have better EV by staking passive players who pay less rake. Is that right?
You have the idea right, but thats what the expense ratio details for you.

If the pure index returns 10%, your Real Return in the index fund/ETF is 9.5% after the .5% ER, minus any brokerage commission if it wasn't free.

If the active fund that benchmarks against the index actually returns 12% then you've gained .5% more then the passive fund would have. So thats why you want the active fund to have higher returns to make it worth the expense.

Compounding that tiny .5% would add up over time. A $10k investment that has a CAGR or 9.5% is $152,203.13 after 30 years. With a CAGR of 10% its $174,494.02. Difference of 14.6% Going out even further to 50 years and its approx $853k to $1.06m, 25% more.

Quote:
But the big question is: will the active fund do it over the long term? Many do not. Can you pick the ones that do?
nuclear500 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online