Why do you assume poker player's can't have status and connectedness?

I would agree that it is harder and someone would have to be making much more from poker than their peer group makes from traditional occupations but both of these are just obstacles that can be overcome. I don't think poker as a profession is the problem but rather that a large percentage of people who are drawn to online poker have personalities that make status something they will never have regardless of what profession they choose.

Because as you get older, it's linked to a career?

A career matters in so much as it implies stability which has value but there is no reason you can't have stability with poker. Poker has the same stability as self-employment so I don't see why it should be treated any differently.

The reason poker player has a negative connotation is that you have a decent amount of guys who make good money but nevertheless choose to live like students well into their thirties.

There is also a lot of people with less than stellar social skills and that compounds that problem. That said if you choose to behave like any other professional and engage in the same non-work activities you'll have the exact same status they do although your income / wealth level will be somewhat discounted. If you know how to present yourself having a non-traditional source of income is actually an advantage in social status situations and the time flexibility definitely gives someone a huge advantage if they choose to take advantage of it (my general feeling from 2p2 is that most poker players don't but failing to take advantage of a benefit is the individual's problem not the situation's).

Henry17, I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I think what you are missing is poker overlooks, sometimes even encourages, certain anti-social anti-maturity tendencies.

Christ, none of this has much to do with "the poker lifestyle". OP is just lost, plain and simple. The guy has the all the money and freedom that most of us would give our left nut for.

Go seek a therapist TwoSHAE.

What career did you end up pursuing?

It seems like you like school and want to settle somewhere you can play online poker legally. Would you consider taking a Masters program in Vancouver? It shouldn't be too hard to get a Visa if you get into the program.

Yep I think this nails it. I don't know if you're being tongue in cheek about suggesting seeing a therapist, I don't think that would help but I don't know. Most people on these boards are giving a sort of advice that may be too focused to be beneficial, too much of providing specific career directions to explore or ways to improve social standing.

I think the OP has deeper, perhaps spiritual, issues. I honestly think the best thing for him is to start with the basics of his perception and feeling, acknowledge his transient, moment to moment consciousness. Then proceed outward from there. Look for the challenge, like I said, the butterflies, the sweat, the feeling of "oh I can't do that, I'm not that kind of person" and then do it. It won't be too hard to find with a little effort. I think this is all there is to it really, but it's difficult to do and success is always partial.

A great wizard who lived before our time said the following:

You say I am repeating
Something I have said before. I shall say it again,
Shall I say it again? In order to arrive there,
To arrive where you are, to get from where you are not,
You must go by a way wherein there is no ecstasy.
In order to arrive at what you do not know
You must go by a way which is the way of ignorance.
In order to possess what you do not possess
You must go by the way of dispossession.
In order to arrive at what you are not
You must go through the way in which you are not.
And what you do not know is the only thing you know
And what you own is what you do not own
And where you are is where you are not.

(actually he wrote that, didn't say it)

Forgot to mention, I'm a fat, virgin loser and everything I say is garbage. Do the opposite of my advice and your life will be a cherub dozing off in a celestial dream amongst petaled roses on a silken gossamer bed.

i was actually going to post some version of the same thing. this whole topic is a deeply personal thing. there is no objectively correct answer. this is not to say it isn't helpful to get good input from people on the message board and i think there's a lot of it here so far.

i'm a big fan of seeing a therapist in general. i've dealt with similar issues as you OP and in the end i just needed to talk about it with someone and try to come to my own conclusions.

I also agree that this would be helpful for OP and a lot more personalized but therapy is still quite a stigmatized thing for many people and a lot still think there must be "something wrong with you" if you go to therapy so many choose not to go due to the stigma associated with it. Many also don't realize that many forms of therapy have good evidence backing them up.

Start meditating every morning. Download the app "headspace" to start (calm is another one, I have used headspace though), then adapt once you get used to it.

Sounds like hippie nonsense (or at least it did to me), but it does wonders if you put the effort in. It has allowed me to sort of detach from myself and view things as if I were someone else observing me, which has been hugely helpful in my stress, happiness, and sense of worth. I view things about myself much more objectively and am okay with it, good or bad.

I read an article about Ray Dalio crediting meditation as the number one factor in his success as a hedge fund manager, so I decided to give it a whirl. Glad I did.
(http://www.businessinsider.com/ray-dalio-2014-2)

There is a lot of other good advice in this thread. Especially the networking advice, good networks allow for great opportunities you would never know existed otherwise.

CBT is largely successful. In 30-40 years, people will look back on looking down on people for taking care of their mental health the same way weed and gay marriage had/have issues.

Who gives a ****, really. Take care of yourself.

I really hope you are right and that the stigma goes away as it really makes no sense to me if people understand what therapy is. I think it is mostly a problem of educating people as to what it is and the potential benefits and that it has actual science backing it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z73La1RdWOo

chris is a good friend of mine and who i immediately thought of when i read your post the other day... maybe this will give you some insight into integrating back into the real world, idk. but it's full of great advise either way

You probably have enough money to live for 5-10 years without working.
Keep playing poker 4hs per day and making some $ but try to come up with something that makes u really enthusiastic. If you wanna get to the top of any profession you would have to work hard, no matter how talented you are. And the only way to enjoy working hard is if you are passionate about it. The process of getting to the top can take easily between 10 to 20 years, so is important that when you start spending a huge amount of your time in sth it is something that u can imagine keeping an interest for a prolonged period of time. Being a VC doesnt sound something of that kind. Sounds like a cool job, in which you get to know many interesting people, and can make a ton of money. But not a job about you can keep passionate for 20 years. Keep that in mind.

Although I am a few years older we have similar college backgrounds, so you may find this book/talk interesting. I will link to the closing of the talk ( you should spend the time to watch the entire thing and if you like buy his book called The Education of a Value Investor) where Guy Spier says, (paraphrase) "....emotions are call to action. The call to action is there is something wrong in my life and I need to change.....You need to get to a place where you are going to bed every night happy with what you did that day."

Here is a link to the talk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifDCmRBElPY#t=3664

You have already made a nice sum of money which if saved and invested properly has significant future value. Sure, you could have more. Would having a net worth that is 500K larger really improve your overall happiness? Remember, the correlation between money and happiness is likely to be a fraction of what we think it is. Sit down and ask yourself why you are still playing. It is because other people think it is cool or is it because you really still enjoy the profession and are happy with your decision to wake up and play everyday?

About the poker industry.... This is a dying business. There really is no way around this fact. In 5 years this industry is going to look VERY different from what it does now and is extremely unlikely to improve and even unlikely to only get marginally worse for professional players. Poker is not like other jobs, where if you lose your job or want to leave, you can transition to something else quickly and easily. You are not building a network of professional contacts that can give you opportunities in the future (not that you couldn't just that most professional players don't and aren't). This leads to higher switching cost than other careers, which will only increase the longer you play.

You are right that poker is very unlikely to be adding value to society. Lots of other industries are not either. It is what it is. I don't think that anyone has an obligation to add value to society (although the argument could be made), but what really matters is this certainly seems like this is important factor to you. If it truly is, then there is no reason to not act upon it.

really nice post, thanks

There's an abundance of valuable content in this thread; thanks to all who have contributed.

OP, fwiw, I'm dealing with similar issues, but I've had a much different trajectory in life than you. Was an academic all-star in college, went to an elite law school after failing to come up with a better plan (horrible reason), worked for a large law firm for 4 years and made six figures, was miserable on a daily basis and finally reached the point where I couldn't take it anymore and quit. Since then, I've been playing poker full-time. While the $ has been good and I'm much less stressed now, with no regrets about leaving the firm, I still feel the same spiritual emptiness that I was hoping would go away once I left the firm. I agree with many others itt that your feelings are probably less directly related to poker than you think. It's more likely the same spiritual malaise that plagues a lot of us who have had a taste of success yet still feel unfulfilled. Life is hard, and it's not any easier when we've been conditioned by American culture to want spectacular lives.

Just like while at the firm, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I find myself panicked by my absence of purpose. Like you, I often find myself troubled by the consequences of preying on dead $, but at least I feel like my actions have no worse bearing on society at large than when I was as a litigator. Feeling as if your life has purpose is not natural imo, but rather something that will take time and effort; imo most people are walking around "faking it" and feel spiritually empty to at least some extent.

IMO, the solutions offered in this thread might help but are generally too specific and biased. I think it'd be better to focus on more general things you could do, such as adding new daily exercise and dietary habits. It's these kinds of basic changes that often pave the way for more momentous change. They'll make you feel better on a physical level which will lead you to have more energy and direct more of your mental focus towards what matters.

I've seen a therapist and found it helpful, albeit too expensive, but there's plenty of other things you could do as well. Exercise, meditation, keeping my most valuable friendships intact, and maintaining a journal are all things I've done that have helped me feel better about my life on a day-to-day basis. There are also well-documented positive psychology techniques you can embrace such as focusing at the end of the day about what you've accomplished that day and why/how as well as taking a moment to think about something for which you're grateful.

U can add value to society when u finish your grind session

Never could relate to these posts about feeling emptiness and lost inside. I guess I have an insatiable appetite for leisure and entertainment. I've been pretty financially secure from poker for many years now without needing to play all that much and have long stretches, sometimes 6 months straight of just socializing, women, friends, taking trips, and enjoying leisure. I can honestly say I enjoy every minute of it without much concern over contributing anything to society. All I'm focused on is my own happiness. I guess being self-ish has it's perks at times... no feelings of emptiness inside or a black cloud.

My life's work? It's good question. I have asked it myself many times. especially as I get older and tend to reflect.

I thought for a while whether I should reply to this thread or not. I've been drinking though so what the hell I just turned 60 this year so in 2+2 terms I am an "old". Mentally I still feel 18, physically not so much! But at this point in ones life they tend to reflect.

Although not a pro poker player I have had a similarly "solo" type career. I have been a professional trader since 1987. All I have done in that time is chase the buck. All of my friends from college went to corporate America. They spent their lives in sales and accounting and management. They talk about their industry and corporate America in general. It was and is their lives work. I can't relate. For me it was and is about the next trade. Me against the world! I wouldn't want it any other way. I never had the security they had in guaranteed incomes and constant employment. And I wouldn't trade with any of them! Even the VP's at fortune 500 companies (a couple actually).

Do what makes you happy! Do what you enjoy. Trading makes me happy and I will do it until I die. I will never fully retire because I love it so much. If poker makes you happy then go it! If not? Find out what does.

James Taylor says it best. Yeah, remember I'm old The Secret 'O Life is enjoying the passing of time.

Fundamentally, you are in the same business as your friend the NFL player. You are both in the entertainment business. But then so are porn stars, hookers, and drug dealers. I'm in the energy business. We keep people's lights on and homes warm. But then there are people in the energy business who are polluting entire ground water reservoirs and spewing poisons into the air all around the world. My advice, think long and hard, be objective, and then do what you think is right.

It depends on your approach. If you're just going to show up and do what they tell you to do you're better off working overtime at the job you've spent years specializing in and giving money, but ideas have the potential to add a lot of value... it's just difficult to quantify (much less get credit for what you've done).

I agree that most of the causes that'll accept randoms tend to be awful but there're always opportunities. I once volunteered for one that turned out to be borderline corrupt in how poorly it was run where 2/3rds+ of what they took in went towards operations, a salary for the guy at the top and the money that did go towards public services were of pretty questionable value. And that's not even taking into consideration all the hours wasted by volunteers trying to get a job reference. But the 'job' they assigned me granted me access to their donor list making it pretty easy to anonymously mail out a detailed explanation to donors as to why the charity is so inefficient and offer some alternatives that would be putting their money to better use (or just direct them to a site like charitynavigator.org )

Some prefer a feel good alternative and for that the easiest way is probably just dealing with those who could use a little bit of advice. Spend time with people who're down and out... be like jesus. It's a great excuse to grow a beard.

Software (developing a gambling site. Not poker btw )
Decided to go full time with a project I had in my stomach for a couple of years.
It is a great feeling creating something new, even though "the social contribution" of a gambling website is debatable.