I'm currently a lawyer in Canada. My fiancee is as well. Wedding in July. She has been offered a cushy law job in the bay area (SF). The pay is greater than our current combined pay. She is also an American citizen, I am not.

I am not particularly interested in law. Definitely not in the sense of working at a law firm.


What I'd prefer to do is seek some level of employment in the crypto-sphere (bitcoin/ethereum etc)
Consulting or maybe sales. Perhaps I could combine it with my legal skills, but I don't see myself myself being called to the California bar, so it would have to be in more of a consulting role than a legal role.

I am slowly learning to code but I don't foresee myself getting a developer type job. I'm just not advanced enough or skilled enough compared to people who have been doing it since they were 10.

As it stands, we'd move there and she'd be the bread winner. I'd hope to eventually get a job in something I truly enjoy. Just wondering if this is something worth leaping into. I think it would essentially end my law career (2 years in), which isn't necessarily bad since I don't enjoy it, but it is a big risk.

thoughts?

I made a similar post 3 months ago (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/30...ition-1570628/) but that was before she had this opportunity. I think this presents a good reason to just go for it.

Law is a deeply unhappy job for a lot of people. If you don't want to do it, have a lawyer wife for income, and have the skills and intelligence to prosper elsewhere, why not?

San Fran has so many opportunities for smart capable men, I say try stuff out until something sticks. Venture capital, startups, maybe even a small business. Do an MBA if freewheeling doesn't work and you need the skills or contacts. Hopefully she's supportive.

What you've got (living in SF, rich wife, talents to do other things) is close to the 30+ dream. It's kind of a shame to waste it doing something you don't like.

generally agree there's lots of opportunity in SF and surrounding areas..

tons of companies there of all sizes and they all need admin... have you thought about in-house counsel? or counsel to a bunch of small companies?

anyway, i know the bay area very well. so hit me up with questions here or PM if you want.

where are you in canada? and where (very generally) is your wife's possible job (basically downtown san fran or way down the peninsula is probable where)

how old are you? the length of time you've been a lawyer suggests early 30's??

nothing to do with my first point... but i'd add patenting is a huge issue in san fran/silicon valley. just knowledge of the law (but not technically being a lawyer, at least in Cali) would probably be pretty valuable (not $1000/hour valuable like a top patent attorney, but reasonable real-world valuable i.e. $100/hour or something like that).

so many canadians would emigrate to southern cal/arizona/etc. if they could. i realize SF is nocal (more like central cali) but the weather has been really really good in the winter for a long time now)

This can get expensive, but if you find yourself sitting around, why don't you get another degree in something you like. Like an MBA or a masters in CS?

I'm busy right now but am thinking about pursuing a masters in CS in a year or two.

You could be a very qualified consultant if you go down this path.

Toronto. Unsure, assumed dt SF.


Mid-30s. Did other stuff before lawyering. getting a little old to go back for MBA. Most people from my year of law school are turning 29 this year.

Before a masters in CS, I'd need some actual cs skills. Although I'd like to go back to school, I think it may be a little unreasonable at this stage.

Another problem with this potential plan is I still have law school debt. Given that I'd be jobless for a period, the fiancee/wife would have to help with those payments.

You're got another 30 odd years of working ahead of you. That's a long time. Spending 1-3 years at school to enter a profession you enjoy that will give you good earnings isn't "unreasonable" at all. It's all about maximizing your long term happiness, opportunities, and lifetime financial expectation.

I'm a fan of trying to do it without school, especially in your situation (well educated already) but it's a perfectly viable backup if you need it to advance in your career.

Programming isn't the most satisfying career. There are much more fun ones, particularly for a guy who's social/status conscious enough to want to have been a lawyer at some point. Your background and interests scream involvement in business/venture in some way.

I agree. I don't want to program. I would like some general knowledge of programming so I can get the basics of it and understand how certain things could be implemented into a package, but I'd rather my job be consulting or maybe sales, possibly with some sort of legal element.

I appreciate all the posts here. thanks!

As a fellow malcontent wanderer type I can definitely relate to what you're experiencing. The core thing to understand here is that you don't have a money problem, you have a motivation problem. If you were motivated by money you probably wouldn't change careers.

I would strongly recommend investigating your MBTI/Jung profile as outlined below:
In my experience the closer I've gotten to job activities supported by my functional stack the happier I've been. I think this will be very important for you to get a handle on what you'll enjoy as you're 30 and still haven't figured it out. Nothing to lose at this point, and it's generally accepted we're generally pretty awful at choosing what will make us happy through our career so better to have a system than the finger in the air process you're attempting now. You'll hear a lot of skepticism around this stuff but I find that's usually because there's a lot of poorly written content around it.

For example this is mine (INTJ), in order of priority:
-Dominant: Introverted Intuition (Ni) - Solve problems unconsciously. Stuff information in, solution comes out later without conscious effort. Great at prediction, visualizing future direction, understanding how everything ties together (a good reason to listen to me when I give advice in areas I have experience in )
-Auxiliary: Extraverted Thinking (Te) - Give rational form to the (Ni) ideas, speaking, writing, executing.
-Tertiary: Introverted Feeling (Fi) - Feelings are kept internally and not shared.
-Inferior: Extraverted Sensing (Se) - Thirst for sensory novelty (gambling *ahem*, luxury, cars, sex).

My poker career reflected my ability to naturally understand/integrate the best available info but ultimately I was less successful because I struggled to put in hours at the table. I interpret this as prioritizing the wrong function (Se over Ni), I always struggled to put in hours despite great results because I'd rather be studying. It was a common problem to be learning something silly like Razz while I had a perfectly viable $200/hour game available to me.

My ideal career should embrace my dominant function of developing visionary answers and demonstrating them rationally while I can support my (Se) outside of my career. I would go through this exercise yourself and think about how your career/business project experiences have integrated with your functional stack.

Here's my recommended resource/author, he applies all this to stages in life and common struggles between your dominant/inferior.

A few other thoughts and risks I think you should consider:
Education: I strongly disagree with the advice to get more education until you're certain about what career you (think) you want. All you will do is dig yourself a deeper hole with no plan. I have a rule, I must have income if I don't know where I'm headed. It's a forcing mechanism to keep you out of trouble and avoid doing something like getting law school debt while not wanting to be a lawyer again.

Relationship: I know a lot of people hate when I talk about relationships so feel free to ignore this part. You're not married yet and planning on moving to a very expensive location without a career plan. Her being the breadwinner and your career being up in the air according to statistics (not feelings) means there's a high probability you could get dumped here. If it comes at an inconvenient time you could easily spend $10k-$20k extricating yourself from the city (cause you're not a citizen). Definitely should be married before you relocate and work on the green card / citizenship process. Also, I think you'll have trouble working until you at least have a visa in place, working in the US as a non-resident is far from trivial.

SF is expensive, long commute times and generally not setup well to find yourself. This is not your ideal location unless you have her committed to being the breadwinner which is not a statistically successful setup (although works well for certain functional stack pairings). This doesn't mean don't do it means have concrete commitments in place that protect you.

Good posts. I think it makes sense to break down your personality as if it was something to crack into or a problem to model a solution to. A lot of people naturally dislike doing it because it reduces meaning/mystery/the power of irrationality, but it's an effective thing to do if you're a bit lost, haven't found your way after a long enough time, or have bad habits that are really getting in the way.

I wonder how many INTJ's you'd find on a successful trading desk. lol

Absolutely agree on not getting more education. He needs to get his hands dirty and learn to make the best. What happens if he leaves law and can't find something though? Or gets stuck? It should definitely be an open door in his mind.

Your "make money if you don't know what to do" is possibly the best advice you could give anyone at any stage of their adult life.

Haha oh man, something I think about a lot. I suspect there's quite a few building strategies that other traders execute. Automated trading strategies potentially as well. Limited by the high cost of activities INTJs hate that it takes to get into finance.

I know in startup world the common trope is the INTJ VC to give the ENTJ founder the big ideas they need to rally the troops and create the vision. The INTJ VC will feel like a genius for suckering someone else in to doing the work for them and the ENTJ founder thinking they're getting a steal on world class ideas.

Maybe you are stressed out. Are you working over 40 hours a week? Maybe you can do something to rekindle the law fire. Maybe you can start to use your law for good. Maybe try to lobby to get capital gains taxes removed from bitcoin as it is a currency. Maybe become an activist for a non-profit. Maybe write laws that make the world a slightly better place. Maybe work 20 hours a week and work part-time at McDonalds to see what blue collar work is really like. You must have went to law school for some reason.

I say go for San Fran with this opportunity for your wife.

You are still young, and your experience is valuable even though it isn't standard for tech. If you think you would love working in tech then you will, it really is ****ing awesome.

hmm, being a young professional with a high earning fiancee and living in Toronto or San Francisco .... hard knock life bro

I say go for it - on top of everything else you are leaving at a time when the CAD is near a low so your earning power is compounded even further in the US right now (on the basis that you may return to TO in a few years).

I love it here but at 70 cent CAD the thought is starting to cross my mind to go south to work for a few years.

I moved to the Bay Area 4 years ago and I think you will love it. If you are into Bitcoin/virtual currency movement you will find plenty of exciting opportunities here. Companies like Coinbase are based in SF. Go for it and feel free to PM me

I think one thing you might not have considered is the numerousssss hacking/coding schools where they cram a ton of coding skills into a very thorough curriculum lasting anywhere from as short as a week through a few months. We've actually hired people as entry level engineers from these types of classes... So I think that'd be a great option for someone wanting to get familiar with it without going to get a CS degree.

I have done something like this. A+ experience.

This is all really really good advice.

A good friend of mine got married to a Canadian girl and I can confirm that you're not going to be able to just show up and work. It's going to be a reasonably long process to get everything you need.

Also, how does "more than our current combined pay" actually compare in dollars? SF can eat up any supposed increase in pay really damn quick so you'll want to make sure your living expectations are actually attainable.

I was going to mention the "actually being married" and employment in USA being tough to get ie government approval

Any more details on those hardcore coding camps... I'd be interested in c++

I don't remember if its Code Academy or Launch. But one of them has some government funding and is completely free. That same "camp" starts with one of the C languages (I am pretty sure its C).

I have heard great things about it. I skipped right to Python. C languages are more low level. Which means you can skew up your machine with them if you make a mistake, also they are not as useful for developing apps or scripts.

C++ is compiled and can be object oriented. C is more functional programming. C# is interpreted.

C is, in a certain sense, like the mother of all programming languages. Many instances of Python are written in C. C is like one step up from assembly language.

rand, thanks... my interest is automated trading models, screen scrapes etc. so that sounds like the right language.

if you are unsure whether you want to live near san francisco just watch the pebble beach golf this weekend.

i hate to say it but san francisco and surrounding areas >>>>>> vancouver, BC (and i'm intimately familiar with both). i assume you may know vancouver quite well living in canada. the weather the last 5 years is what's put SF way over the top of vancouver.