With all the data sets that are available now, I think that most people should start taking statistics. If you get advanced enough, statistics can be just as rigorous as most math classes, plus learning how to program and go through data sets will just be a bigger and bigger advantage.

I don't remember anything in physics like that or do you mean in business?

Do math/physics/engineering really teach problem solving skills? I figure it's more correlation than causation: i.e., those good at problem solving go into technical fields.

He's talking about real analysis. Classes like analysis are incredibly logic intensive. Once you start doing math proofs, you realize how much logic/philosophy is involved in mathematics. It's nothing like doing calculations and getting answers like x=2.5. Rather, it's questions like, prove that the square root of 2 is an irrational number.

I don't really see proofs as useful for what OP is looking to do. I wanted to make this point earlier but I'm not really sure how to word it and that I have been drinking won't help. When it comes to solving problems in a day to day stuff and in business finding a solution is not the difficult part -- the difficult part is the original framing of the problem and understanding the problem. Most problems are not difficult to solve the problem is detecting that a problem exists and understanding the problem. It is more of a comprehension issue than a logical reasoning one.

Idk whether they do or not, I haven't taken any higher level math courses, but people I've talked to/read from on this forum seem to think there is some value.

I agree with what you're saying, that is, that business problem solving is not going to be the same as problem solving for coursework (although I still think there are benefits to taking tougher majors, that force you to think more rigorously, solve more problems, work harder, etc). I'm just arguing that majoring in math is probably on a similar level as philosophy, when it comes to reasoning, analysis, teaching you how to think, etc. Most people don't seem to know this about math, since the stuff they teach in most high school and college classes is mainly about doing calculations and solving boring problems. But once you take a class like intro to proofs or real analysis, you really get to see how beautiful math is, and you really get exposed to the philosophy, logic, reasoning, etc.

On a similar note, I think people should also ask themselves what they can learn outside of the classroom. It's really hard to teach yourself real analysis, but plenty of people read philosophy despite majoring in something different (or not going to school at all). I'm not saying it's easy to teach yourself philosophy, just that it's much more doable than mathematics. It's another reason I'd encourage people not to solely major in business, because you can pick up a lot of the concepts on the job, as well as through self-studying. When you see things from this perspective, you realize a lot of college degrees can be redundant, IMO. Therefore, I think it's smart to pick a major (or second major) that gives you a broader range of skills, that will allow you to pick up more stuff later on in life, and that's not particularly easy to teach yourself through independent study.

dont kid yourself. all undergrad degrees are equally useless.

With the exception of the math courses required for physics and compsci I didn't take any other math courses but I know what you mean. Proofs are something that people with a logical mind enjoy but I don't believe they create a logical mind. Someone who doesn't already have that skill just gets frustrated. I remember a particularly difficult applied logic course that was part of compsci and people would gather to compare proofs and the people who basically just copied from the small group who got it was the same at the end of the year as the first proof. There was zero improvement.

Not even in question. The value in philosophy though is not in the material but in sitting in small round table type classes for 3rd and 4th year and interacting with your peers. First two years are complete waste of time. The material is a waste of time. It is the interacting with your fellow students that is the valuable part. Being able to figure out how they are misunderstanding the material and the flaws in their reasoning.

I also agree that taking business is not necessarily the best option. I don't have a business degree but I did take some classes at Ivey and I don't believe I they have been of any use to me. It could just have been bad luck but I was not impressed. Ivey students were also free to take courses at the law school and again I was not impressed. They were very slow at grasping basic concepts and given how disappointing law students are that Ivey students were even worse is rather scary.

The impression I'm starting to get is that "you either have it or you don't." I'm not sure if I have it or not, but I'm not going to avoid it and I am going to find out. I'm going with either math or CS. Gotta look at the required classes for each. Thanks guys.

I doubt it's so black-and-white. Sure, maybe you don't have the skills to win the fields metal or even get straight As as a math major, but saying you can't sit through real analysis and improve your logic, reasoning, etc, I don't buy it.

I meant more along the lines of the impression I'm getting from the last few posts. In fact, I hope that I can improve my logic and my ability to observe and solve a complex problem, as I feel the ability to do so can make a great businessman.

That could be. It also seems that many people just want a degree and don't care about learning that much, so they don't get much out of the courses. At least in my case, I used to have a very weak math background, but decided to minor in it last-minute to prepare for grad school, and I definitely think it helped my logic skills. I'm not saying I have great logical skills now, but I think definitely better than I did before I took the proof based math courses.

That's a good point. Just to be clear, I do think philosophy is a useful degree as well.

What do you guys think the benefit of a business degree is? As far as I can tell, it teaches you some specialized stuff and can help land a decent first job. With that said though, I don't think it's that rigorous, and you can learn a lot of stuff through work and self-study (and if need be, you can just get an MBA in the future which probably teaches you more, and definitely caries more weight). That's why I think if someone is going to major in business, it's smart to pair that with math, stats, philosophy, CS, econ, engineering, etc. Anyway that just my 2 cents, and I don't deny the bias.

I didn't have enough exposure to judge but from the little I did see I would say the value in having a business degree is the degree itself and future employer's perception that it is of some value.

It depends how much you're willing to work for it, for most people the theory component with math etc doesn't come naturally, it takes hours upon hours every day, slaving through notes and practice with difficult problems. Engineering seems designed around 'you really want to be engineer? lets see you grind this', rather than 'lets see how talented you are'.