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Old 01-07-2010, 09:04 PM   #126
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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Someone is a joke for being pathetic. Why work when we can take advantage of the convenient situation that sitting by a subway exit looking like a homeless person with a plate out will get me $12-18/hr?
Never connected the dots that begging looks just as good as sitting in a coffee shop drinking coffee and reading a newspaper.

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To get $40k you need to have annual returns of slightly above 8% and that is assuming you only pay 18-20% in income tax which is what I gather the US tax rate would be for someone making $80k and that doesn't include the possibility that there might be state income tax as I'm not really familiar with the US system but that seems likely. If you want to keep the principle in inflated adjusted until at least your late 50s or early 60s that means that for the prime of your life you'll either need to break 8% every year with low risk investments or you'll need to live on $25-35k depending on the rate of inflation.
Not quite. Renting out 3 units of a $700k quad should get you $42k+ in many big cities. Drawing down on the $300,000 is an additional $15k that should go for 40+ years at least. That gets you to $57k pre-tax, and I am not even counting the +EV hobbies you conveniently ignored. With any reasonable tax avoidance you can easily get $40k+ after tax. And it goes up with inflation.

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I don't go to Costco but I have been in one. The store consists of rows of freezers on one side full of frozen food and large shelves of over sized general staples on the other. At the end they have some fresh food but it requires that you buy chicken breasts 12-16 at a time and even if you ignore that the chicken's colour kind of looks a little off you still are buying enough chicken to ensure that you are either freezing it or having chicken for every meal that week.
Costco contains a lot of healthy stuff, and a lot of unhealthy stuff. Stay away from the unhealthy stuff.

Something wrong with having guests over, or a freezer? I'm sure if you have guests they would return the favor and invite you to their place on their dime.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:17 PM   #127
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

Henry,

I lived far from a "baller" lifestyle. Cmon I used 500 bucks for a car in that estimate. $500 for a lease alone would be a min for a "baller car". More than like it'd just be a lol car.


PS: lol at Costco for produce.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:04 PM   #128
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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Henry,

I lived far from a "baller" lifestyle. Cmon I used 500 bucks for a car in that estimate. $500 for a lease alone would be a min for a "baller car". More than like it'd just be a lol car.
I mostly agree. A lot of people in this thread forget about costs of maintenance of a car. Gas, tires, oil changes, car insurance, etc... are all part of keeping a car on the road. While I wouldn't call $500/month car a lol vehicle. A reasonable car can cost you that much. Whether you are leasing, paying a car loan or recognizing depreciation (if the car is paid for). Total costs for a car can really add up.

If you look for a "baller" vehicle that can get you laid. Then, expect to pay $900+/month. Cars are a lot more expensive than people realize. However, a lot of people in this thread who expect to live well/comfortably don't realize the cost of doing so. It's been mentioned by others before, just because you live a certain way in your 20's doesn't mean you will live that lifestyle when your 40 or older.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:14 PM   #129
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

Burning up 6k a year on a car through expenses is ezpz. I'd say its quite "lol" for cost inclusive for all but the most miserly options and 100% not reasonable for a "baller" ride. You're looking at maybe a budget of $300 a month for a lease on $500 month car budget? Even a $500 lease gets you... 35k-40k of car? (I don't lease.) Not very many ballin options when your comparable are fully loaded minivans and mid-level full size trucks.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:43 PM   #130
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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If I was going to do that, I would spend my free time trying to work on something that would allow me to potentially make an absolute killing without any downside. For example, maybe you could put a lot of energy into developing a business idea, but not be willing to put up much of your own money on it. You'd have so much free time to think about it, develop it, and pitch it to others. Essentially just be willing to put in tons of time, but not any money. Basically, you'd have huge upside but very little downside since you're pretty much guaranteed to earn $40K a year regardless. They key though, is it'd have to be something you're actually interested in, otherwise what's the point as you might as well just sit on your ass.

The idea of moving to a 3rd world country is also good.
you are hilarious. keep posting.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:57 PM   #131
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

I just checked for online quotes for a 25 year old single male driving at 3 year old Toyota Corolla and the insurance would be $197/month for the default coverage and with no driving blemishes having been an insured driver from the age of 16.

Figure at least $80-100/month for gas.

I have no idea what maintenance on a car is but just with gas and insurance you are at $300/month so $500 seems like not much.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:10 PM   #132
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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you are hilarious. keep posting.
LOL, what's so funny about what I was saying?
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:45 PM   #133
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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To summarize the thread and close it out:

If you don't have expensive tastes, $1m is plenty at $40k/year (thats 4% muni bond btw)

If you have more expensive tastes, you need more then $1m.
Ummm, no.

To summarize this thread:

If you are the 20 year old version of Ted Kaczinski or Jack Kerouac, you could do it.

Even though your muni-bond is tax free, you still have to cover inflation. CPI over the last 30 years is like 2.5-3%. You would be broke before you died.

To close this thread out, if you are willing to intelligently put your $1m to work, and do some work yourself, you could do it pretty comfortably. If you decide you want to stare at the walls, while on a spreadsheet it's possible to scrape by, you'd be below the poverty line.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:53 PM   #134
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

lol at the math failure personal finance stupidity itt
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:00 AM   #135
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

This thread should really be about why the hell we allow American high school kids to graduate with 0 exposure to this stuff.

It should be M-A-N-D-A-T-O-R-Y and you could teach it pretty comfortably in a semester and cover credit cards, home loans, retirement planning, budget making, etc
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:36 AM   #136
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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Ummm, no.

To summarize this thread:

If you are the 20 year old version of Ted Kaczinski or Jack Kerouac, you could do it.

Even though your muni-bond is tax free, you still have to cover inflation. CPI over the last 30 years is like 2.5-3%. You would be broke before you died
Depends entirely upon how much money you need on what is thrown off. What if you only need $30k of the $40k? Does the rest just disappear?

A lot of assumptions ITT about how much money people have to spend on things by citing examples of their own life which doesn't really mean much other then your own ability to deal with $40k/year.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:46 AM   #137
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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Depends entirely upon how much money you need on what is thrown off. What if you only need $30k of the $40k? Does the rest just disappear?

A lot of assumptions ITT about how much money people have to spend on things by citing examples of their own life which doesn't really mean much other then your own ability to deal with $40k/year.
Freeganism. Don't need nothing. Stupid thread. Or maybe this line of thought is ****ing retarded. You need money to live and 30k is very very little. And your example doesn't even adjust for purchasing power which is lol.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:02 AM   #138
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

"Freeganism" - if thats what it takes.

I point to the threads title.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:07 AM   #139
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

A couple of years old, and I'm not sure how sound the analysis is, but this study indicates that the net present value of a medical degree is less than one million dollars.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com...on.aspx?page=2

edit: it used 1996 earnings, so it would clearly be greater nowadays.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:25 AM   #140
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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Freeganism. Don't need nothing. Stupid thread. Or maybe this line of thought is ****ing retarded. You need money to live and 30k is very very little. And your example doesn't even adjust for purchasing power which is lol.
Not necessarily. This guy is retired in his 30's and lives off $5k/year IN CALIFORNIA. His life is also much more fulfilling than mine will ever be even though I spend a lot more money than he does. I'm working on changing that. I estimate his nestegg to be ~$200k but that is just my best guess. Also, please don't be too quick to judge. His blog does have extreme views but is fascinating.

http://earlyretirementextreme.com/

Last edited by Shoe; 01-08-2010 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:32 AM   #141
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

Sorry man. I can't feed myself on that budget. I'm not budging on my choice to eat an orange when I want.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:40 AM   #142
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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Sorry man. I can't feed myself on that budget. I'm not budging on my choice to eat an orange when I want.
I would like to know what you eat. But even if you allow yourself 10k/year on food, there is plenty of room left over (based on the topic of this thread).

Of course, if you consider all of your current expenses to be "necessities" and not evaluating which $$$ provide value to your life and which do not, you will just keep allowing your spending to spiral out of control.

Just to be clear, I am not saying spending money on anything is bad. Just that most of us spend A LOT of money on things that do not provide any actual value to our lives.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:43 AM   #143
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

I'm referring to the 5k gai. $100 a week is a lol low amount to eat on.
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Old 01-08-2010, 01:46 AM   #144
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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I'm referring to the 5k gai. $100 a week is a lol low amount to eat on.
I know you take health to an extreme, so it would be worth it for you to spend more on food. And while I could definitely criticize his diet, even on his low budget he eats way better than the average American does.

I'm not saying you are right and he is wrong or vice versa, just that people value different things differently.

Too say you cannot retire COMFORTABLY AND HAPPILY with $1M at any age is just a huge FAIL. (Also this sentence is not specified towards you even though I quoted you).
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Old 01-08-2010, 02:03 AM   #145
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

I'd say its easily impossible with a family. As a single man its doable, but the std of living could be quite low.

His ability to feed himself on that budget would be quite interesting to read. I have trouble even imagining what I'd end up eating. I mean... is he buying like a whole side of beef and storing it? I've considered that, and it'd be super sweet. But then I'd end up with a small farm in my freezer since I lurve all types of meat. And this would quickly spiral out of control.

Average Americans are ultra life fish. And they eat food that is mostly **** of doody 4. Like the comment above talking about Costco over going to your local farmer's market. GMAFB. Ignoring other aspects (free organic, greater knowledge of items, etc etc), and the fact its typically cheaper, and more environmentally friendly. The simple fact of being able to buy individual meal sized amounts of produce for the same price as a ginmorous bag of lettuce has a sizable amount of utility and value.
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Old 01-08-2010, 02:21 AM   #146
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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I'd say its easily impossible with a family. As a single man its doable, but the std of living could be quite low.
I semi-agree with this. The guy I posted about is married but has no intention of having kids.

However, even with kids I would argue that anyone could raise a family easily on $30k year assuming they were careful with their money and also had some "lifeskills" -- such as knowing how to fix things and/or raise crops or animals. Money is only a medium of exchange. If you are willing to put in the work yourself, all you need is land.

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His ability to feed himself on that budget would be quite interesting to read. I have trouble even imagining what I'd end up eating. I mean... is he buying like a whole side of beef and storing it?
No, he lives in trailor with limited storage. And I agree with the rest of your post.
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Old 01-08-2010, 04:01 AM   #147
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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why do we still have teachers and not academic chaperons?
I don't really know what you're getting at as it's pretty clear there's a massive amount of financial ignorance in the US. I consider myself low-average in terms of financial knowledge and I look like a friggin' genius in these threads and amongst people I know, with very few exceptions.

I'd confidently wager that whatever extra money was pumped into this program would be returned to the public. Remember, we here in the US just spent a few trillion dollars of public funds bailing people out because they did not understand ARMs or even do the most basic amount of research on the most important purchase of their lives'.

The old saying holds true that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
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Old 01-08-2010, 04:57 AM   #148
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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"I also have enough of a mind to remember to either bring water or drink a cup in advance so I am not surprised by thirst (seriously, how hard can this be?). This in turn means that I do not waste money on less than frugal expenses like vending machines, etc."

It tends to amaze me how people can come completely unprepared day after day in the same way. I already like this guy, will read on...
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Like the comment above talking about Costco over going to your local farmer's market. GMAFB. Ignoring other aspects (free organic, greater knowledge of items, etc etc), and the fact its typically cheaper, and more environmentally friendly. The simple fact of being able to buy individual meal sized amounts of produce for the same price as a ginmorous bag of lettuce has a sizable amount of utility and value.
I used to buy organic farm fresh produce in a farm state/area and it was $350/mo or so. A lot of that was actually not the produce but the fact that I was on a 3.5K cal diet and buying a decent amount of prepared food. I'm guessing it's a bit more expensive where you live, though.

---
Talking more specifics, if we were to stay in the US, where's the best place to live cheaply but happily?
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:18 AM   #149
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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Too say you cannot retire COMFORTABLY AND HAPPILY with $1M at any age is just a huge FAIL. (Also this sentence is not specified towards you even though I quoted you).
You must have a very different definition of comfortably than normal people.

1) Does comfortably include having a place to live without roommates that is not a dump? If so how much do you believe such a place costs?

2) Does comfortably include owning an automobile? If so how much do you believe that costs?

3) Does comfortably include leaving the house and having social connections with people? If so how many times a week? How much do you think that costs?

4) Does comfortably include having clothing that while not designer or anything fancy at least are such that it is not automatically obvious that you are a poverty case? If so how much do you think that costs?

5) Does comfortably include health and dental insurance? If so how much does that cost?
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Old 01-08-2010, 08:32 AM   #150
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Re: If you had 1M dollars to live off forever could it be done and how?

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"I also have enough of a mind to remember to either bring water or drink a cup in advance so I am not surprised by thirst (seriously, how hard can this be?). This in turn means that I do not waste money on less than frugal expenses like vending machines, etc."

It tends to amaze me how people can come completely unprepared day after day in the same way. I already like this guy, will read on...
It is not that people don't realize that if I'm going to be out all day at some point I'm going to need a beverage and likely something to eat. It is that normal people don't want to walk around with backbacks full of crap. This is a quality of life issue. Paying $1.25 is worth not having to carry a water bottle around all day.

-----------------------

I also think we've glossed over dating way too fast.

25 and single -- how do you attract and court a girl when your budget for a date is the value menu at McDs?

Casual sex is out of the question. A condom is 10-12% of your daily budget.
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