Henry,

I cannot picture how you don't understand that the mass majority of americans can live very happily on 30k a year without a job. I don't know whether you feel shunned socially for not going out to Flemings every meal, but most people don't. Also, 30k a year is far from a lifestyle of "frozen chicken and big cans of stuff," I feel like you either live in new york, or have not been in any grocery store for decades. Probably because you've mentally delegated that to the servants.

i wasn't arguement with you had nothing to do with whther it is possible to live off of 30k a year or not. i was discussing your statement that free activities were not really free since you would have costs for food and drink. ofcourse that would only be a cost realted to biking if you would not have that drink at home or at work. obviously you would need some cost of living. you suggest free activities raise this cost. i am not so sure. it is also possible to pack a lunch when you go biking. you may enjoy sitting in a cafe more, but that is a whole different matter. people have different tastes.

I spend 1200 on housing in the US and 800 to eat at the grocery store a month. I now have 6k left each year. This example is pretty absurd.

After utilities and TV, I might have enough to have an alcoholic beverage 2x a month to numb the pain of this "life".

See, the problem with this is the demographic of this forum. It's probably 80%+ single males under 30. Whenever these types of debates occur, someone always says "30k is PLENTY". That same person probably doesn't have kids, hasn't thought about their college, probably doesn't own a house etc.

A mortgage on a really really cheap house (especially if you live in CA) is 900-1200. That's basically 33%-45% of your 30k right there. Then you have property tax, home owner's insurance, utilities, car payments, internet bills, cable bills, food, etc etc etc.

The point being is that it's like when people argue about winrates in NVG. "LOL EETS SO EZY TO MKE 500K PLYING 2/4 6MX, JST PLY LKE 10K HNDS/DAY AND WIN FER LIKE 5PTBB"... Yes, conceivably it's in the realm of possibility you could live off 30k/year, but I think the vast majority of adults who have kids, a wife etc, would agree that it's pretty low. If you're talking pre-tax, it isn't even an opinion anymore, it's just flat wrong.

FFS, the city of San Jose, CA has the poverty line set at nearly 50k, just for reference.

EDIT: LOL, Thremp beats me to it. King Cobras all around!

I was with you till you started hating on King Cobra. I'll drink that **** by choice, keep your OE800. I ain't no wealthy man like these fagg0ts who need >30k a year to pay the billz.

But seriously King Cobra is the ****. If I had 2 40s, I'd get fked up now.

You forgot about inflation. The first few percent have to go to that and then you have to deal with taxes.

I quit drinking recently, but I was quite fond of the Steele Reserve in college.

i was just thinking of U.S. tax rates which are still pretty low for time being and having a good bit of it in high yield > 5%

Junk bonds are still around 10% yield and there is corporate debt over 5% and lots of other possibilities and combinations(oil trusts, dividend stocks etc). I don't invest for yield myself right now but in 5 sec i found this 8% yield in corporates.

http://us.ishares.com/product_info/f...erview/HYG.htm

and better A
http://us.ishares.com/product_info/f...erview/LQD.htm

long term appreciation per year on bonds and stocks is what 3-5% historically, right

Immaterial. Any swongs create an unacceptable ROR.

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=LIQ-UN.TO

took me like 5 secs to find a 10% return...being as this one involves alchohol its prob a fairly stable investment.

lol this is beyond ******ed

Yes because nothing is happening to income trusts in the near future that could make this potentially unstable and possibly explain the high distribution.

Or the fact its up >60% in 9 months? Very stable. Only volatile on the upswong.

Odds are it likely lost that much in a month following October 31 2006

Don't waste this kind of genius, start a hedge fund bro.

Rick Crook, President and CEO of LSGP, said, "We are excited to announce that we have completed the acquisition of eight Liquor Barn stores in Kentucky. With the acquisition of Liquor Barn (KY) we gain the benefit of an established brand in an attractive market and believe it will be an excellent strategic fit. We expect to approximately double our US revenue in 2010 with the addition of the Liquor Barn (KY) stores. We are pleased with the Fund's diversification into the US markets of Kentucky and Alaska and expect to continue with further expansion in the US and Canada as new opportunities arise."

Obvious that management is competent...recognizing obvious expansion opportunities in the US. Investing is easy no?

Thanks for this link. I didnt even know what AMT was until your post and I looked it up.

And his opinion of you is that you are a joke for not taking advantage of a convenient situation. The business probably wants him so the place looks at least a bit busy.
Using my model yearly income after tax would be in the $40k range, not even including the +EV hobbies that would allow me to make basically free $. And I could not count the number of people in urban settings who do (and want to do) things exactly described in these categories, in addition to other things that I did not even mention (e.g. artist).

I don't know what costco you go to, but I can prepare close-to gourmet meals from stuff they sell there. And fairly cheaply too. Perhaps you feel you need to pay for a private chef to come in and prepare your meals, or you don't enjoy life?

Can people stop quoting Henry, my 'ignore' function doesnt work when you quote.

Someone is a joke for being pathetic. Why work when we can take advantage of the convenient situation that sitting by a subway exit looking like a homeless person with a plate out will get me $12-18/hr?

To get $40k you need to have annual returns of slightly above 8% and that is assuming you only pay 18-20% in income tax which is what I gather the US tax rate would be for someone making $80k and that doesn't include the possibility that there might be state income tax as I'm not really familiar with the US system but that seems likely. If you want to keep the principle in inflated adjusted until at least your late 50s or early 60s that means that for the prime of your life you'll either need to break 8% every year with low risk investments or you'll need to live on $25-35k depending on the rate of inflation.

I don't go to Costco but I have been in one. The store consists of rows of freezers on one side full of frozen food and large shelves of over sized general staples on the other. At the end they have some fresh food but it requires that you buy chicken breasts 12-16 at a time and even if you ignore that the chicken's colour kind of looks a little off you still are buying enough chicken to ensure that you are either freezing it or having chicken for every meal that week.

Costco is lol bulk for a single person. I probably consume relatively higher amounts of food than the average person posting in this thread and there is no human way I'm going to eat 10 lbs of tenderloin in a week before I 1) die 2) want to die.

In addition many of the items aren't cheaper than something like Wal-Mart, and god forbid you have the option of using coupons. Preparing gourmet meals requires virtually no ingredients so that is a really specious argument as gourmet-esque meals can be prepared from a local farmer's market (A much better choice for our cost conscious shopper) since the differentiation lies in the skill of the preparer primarily and the tools at his disposal a bit.

But whatever, 1M is a lol low amount of money for even a single male to retire on.

Thremp - but with your genius and sports betting you could turn $1Millsky it into a Billsky... yes ??

No. That is a quite ******ed question. But if you want to open another thread where you ask questions you don't know the answer to (or why its the answer), I'll be glad to throat **** you again.

Oh no doubt, I assumed 1 million dollars to live off forever meant without supporting other people. If you don't support other people 30k is most certainly enough, even with bars. Other than in 2 states you can pretty much find a non-slum to rent for 1k with utilities. Again, if you are willing to drive something less than 20k, and grocery shop at all, as a single male you will live comfortably spending around 2k in expenses a month and having 6k a year for luxury not counting drawdown. That can go far if you aren't the bottle service type as a plethora of people make do with 6k for non major entertainment. With the drawdown you can still take vacations and pretty much live an decent life.

Granted, with kids, or if the 30k is taxed I completely agree with you. I'd like to point out that if we are going to go down the "it depends road," the argument devolves simply because even at 5 million if my hobby is yacht collecting I'm going to Henry you and chuckle at what a poor life you might lead.

Also a point to make about the house is if you pay it off and depending on the interest you can "gain" down the road so the 900-1200 for mortgage is incredibly deceiving if 15 years down the road your disposable real income has increased by 12k.