Generally, rental income follows cost of living. So in that regard there is no issue.

In addition, people do things with their time. If you want to be stupid and fly to Vegas and blow $20k betting on red then of course $1M is not enough. The trick is to occupy your time with constructive efforts that make your life a decent experience. Any degenerate (drinker, gambler, druggie) will tell you they need to continue their stupid lifestyle. Most can see through that. On the same lines, one does not need to eat at upscale restaurants, spend $$$ on clothes or travel frequently to enjoy their life.

Our economy is structured so that one is led to believe spending money is the best way to enjoy life. Young people generally fall into this trap. There are many activities that are enjoyable which are either ~zero cost or actually +EV that are not "working." Anybody with $1M could easily lead a full and productive life and never be considered "working".

And, generally speaking, living expenses go up as one gets older. This can be caused by family, increased earnings, deadbeat friends, more expensive home for the spouse/kids, etc. If one recognizes this it can be effectively contained.

Yep, it would suck to be a landlord in my opinion, it's not even close to the same thing as not working.

I would also like to remind people that there's inflation protected investments (TIPs and maybe even others).

Most valuations have the cost of management built in. IIRC ~8%.

Depends on your renters. Many (most?) are better behaved than you and the biggest problem you have is sweeping the driveway.

Checked out TIPS yield lately? Does not compare to RE income.

Give me a weeks worth of activities (7 days for 8-10 hours a day minimum) for someone in a urban environment that doesn't involve spending much money?

Sitting at home watching TV, playing video games, or just walking around aimlessly is not considered entertaining for the purposes of this exercise.

Just out of curiosity, did you mean me personally, or "one"?

I wasn't saying it was a great investment, just that if you were really worried about inflation and didn't want to take much (any?) risk, then TIPS would at least keep your real money constant.

Here are a few:

1. self-learning/education (e.g. financial management).
2. learning music.
3. charity contribution.
4. +/0 EV hobbies (too many to mention).
5. public sector volunteer contribution (e.g. police/fire).
6. volunteer teaching.
7. military support.
8. physical fitness.
9. writing/publishing.
10. reading.
11. hanging around/bumming off of friends (I see so many do this already).
12. volunteer motion picture work.
13. grade school assistant.
14. rock climbing.
15. bicycling.
16. lifeguard.
17. national park volunteer.
18. volunteer skiing instructor.
19. recreational poker playing.
20. chess and other games.
21. senior center assistant.
22. theater understudy.
23. historian.

What are some + EV hobbies? I ask, not because I doubt you, but rather because I'm probably overlooking them.

Either, no offense. If you are not already aware, most renters want no trouble and avoid it at significant cost.

In theory, yes, although TIPS have not been stress-tested in cases of moderate-high inflation.

If you were expert at restoring old artwork or automobiles, you are probably a hot commodity for somebody who will pay you serious $.

None taken, just curious. Yes, you are right, but there are many cases in which renters can be a pain in the ass (a minority of cases, but probably significant nonetheless).

Interesting. Isn't it just directly tied to the inflation as measured by the CPI? If you're saying that the CPI is not a perfect measure, and that it maybe even less accurate in moderate-high inflation, then you could definitely be right.

If I was single and had no kids and intended to remain that way this would be easy.

Since I am not and I do have kids, it would be doable but it would suck.

If the kids were out of the house, I was in my 50s, and I had $1M 2010 dollars inflation adjusted, then yes, comfortably. Live in a rural area, garden, hunt, fish, golf, and otherwise be Ray Zee.

Henry wud u like 2 move in with me. If I have a roomie, then I can have someone to help proofread the book I'm writing, and someone to play Warhammer 40k. Then we can both stop working. After that we can volunteer at the fire department, I know you have delusions about liking your Porsche, but public transit helps the enviroment so much more.

Wut dew u say?

You listed 23 things that can basically be broken down into two main of physical fitness and doing volunteer work with a minor category of learning something.

I'll give you physical fitness but realistically that is an hour or two a day and maybe two days a week you can do something a little more extensive.

Doing volunteer work is basically just sneaking a job in though the backdoor except you don't get paid for it (and at least in my limited experiences you end up out of pocket). If we are going to work we might as well make some money.

When you say something like reading. I like to read but who wants to sit at home by themselves reading. So you go out to a Starbucks or a pub and you read there and you are now out $15-20 for the afternoon.

Same goes for playing chess. I use to play a lot of chess with a friend from law school. He was Armenian and I think it is like a national sport for them. Go over to his place have some cognac, play chess, talk about business and gossip about other students. It was fun but even if we replace the cognac with something less expensive you are still out $20 and that is before you consider that eventually you'll get hungry and want to order some food.

Even biking costs money. Some kind of sports bar and a sports drink and there goes $6-7.

No one is saying it can't be done only that not only would you have to be insanely careful about the activities you do but that even when doing those activities you are basically limited to tap water.

but surely we are discussing costs incurred due to having so much free time, which we would not have if we worked or just sat at home. do u only drink tap water when at work or home? do you not eat something?

Stationary tradmill exercise != biking, rock climbing, etc.

Hobbies != volunteer effort.

Education != anything else.

writing != anything else.

musician != anything else.

acting != anything else.

Playing games != anything else.

Hanging around with your friends != anything else.

Helping out at the fire dept. != assisting seniors.

assisting seniors != assisting kids.

I knew this guy who would hang out at the local coffee shop all morning, and just drink free refill coffee to pass the time. He would talk to friends, read the morning paper, read a book, and just enjoy being where other people were. His cost was probably $1.50 for 3+ hours.

I am sure I left out dozens more. If you can't take from my list and other things build a fulfilling lifestyle then I guess you just like to blow money. Of course corporate America loves you.

If you wanted to just sit there and gain 100 pounds by eating all day, that would not be smart.

In this regard I only see relevant costs if one would get something for free while working (coffee, tea, snacks, etc.)

Go to costco. That stuff will last you months.

yeah, i don't think u understood my point at all. i was responding to henry btw.

Why would one not want to manage their home expenses, instead of just being stupid about it and buying useless stuff that serves no purpose?

e.g. I buy fuji water instead of drinking from the tap. That is stupid.

i never claimed someone should not manage their home expenses. henry was saying that activities costs money and that even biking would run you 6-7 bucks for drink and energy bar. my point to him was simply that you you would have food and beverage costs no matter what you do. not sure what you are on about.

I think his issue is that activities that should cost you little to nothing would cost you more than that.

In other words, doing things you like would eat into your low income and thus force you to make choices about what you can/want to do.

I see your point, i.e. you need to eat anyways. He is associating the cost with the activity. For example, If I read I need to go to Starbucks to read, and I need to buy the most expensive coffee if I go to Starbucks.

+1

and if one lived in a city with mass transit that would be a big plus too. Car expenses wouldn't be a money pit.

Because the point is to see if we can live on $30k a year so all costs are relevant.

Also people making $30k a year tend to pack a lunch so the costs are not the same. In a social situation there are costs that come with showing up. Hanging out at a friends house and everyone decides to order food you basically have to be the guy who isn't hungry (eventually the guy who is pathetically broke and everyone feels sorry for) or go along with it. Remember your friends aren't trying to live on a shoestring budget so you'll either look like a loser or need to find new broke friends.

Only if the place will smell like patcholi and if we can have one of those beaded curtains.

Some of us have self-respect. Being the guy who exploits the free re-fill and takes up space in someone's business is pathetic.

I couldn't but I couldn't be happy with a lot of things that would be more than enough for others so we are not even talking about me here. I'm talking about just an average person. In a rural setting I believe it is possible since people who are into that nature stuff are easily entertained for free but in a urban setting, living without roommates, and needing to leave the house for human contact there is no way someone who doesn't work can lead a happy life on $30k.


Again what kind of quality of life are we talking about if food consists of giant boxes of frozen chicken and big cans of stuff. No one is saying it can't be done physically. I can go buy one of those massive bags of rice and as long as no fresh meat was involved eat very cheaply but now we are living to sustain ourselves rather than because it is actually enjoyable.

by my calculations it is more than 30k a year. If it's spread among different yields from 1% to 10% a conservative lowball is atleast $39k per yr