disconnects are expensive. when traveling with laptop you want to pay for security, otherwise your laptop won't be yours for very long.

sports and music arent common interests?

i think you just assume everyone wants to be just like you.

No.

You listed

Online Communities
Music
Sports
Sleep
Watching Hours of TV

The only one that I think appeals to a 25 year old male is Sports and the reality of that is that you can only do so much before physical limitations kick in. Not to mention many sports would cost more than the hypothetical can afford and the activities he can afford he can only afford by doing them in a way that he has to bring everything with him and can't even just splurge on a PowerAid if he feels thirsty.

With respect to music I can see that being appealing to ~10% of the population but unless you mean sitting in a room smoking pot and writing songs no one is ever going to hear the costs are beyond the individual's budget.

FWIW sitting around smoking pot writing music would murder this budget too...

Abba, I think Henry has been pretty reasonable about not extrapolating his personal experience into this example, what specific posts are giving you this impression?

I know everyone here is gamblers, but you should include medical insurance in your budget (which could range between $100-$2000 a month depending on a lot of factors), unless you want to risk losing your whole $1MM due to some medical event.

lol $100

I love how this BFI's most popular thread in years.

These threads always seem to be phrased wrong (mostly because its an idiot asking). Some guys need $1mm / year to get by and be happy. Some guys can get by on a fraction of that. $1mm would be tough for most normal ppl but far from impossible. Its fairly easy for someone with meager tastes - $100k buys you a house in the country and risk free interest can well cover country living.

I know a few guys in NYC that moved out to bumblef*ck to retire well before their 30th bday. None of them are happy with their decision and a few came back.

The real question asked is what is the best sustainable risk free or super low risk rate I can earn while protected against periods of high inflation.

The strategy would be to buy high grade floating debt or buy fixed and swap. The rate would depend on how sophisiticated you were.

Certain annuties are wrap up in a life insurance program where you get annuity payments tax free.

You can just pluck the 1 mil in there and get 80k or whatever per year, tax free.

There is a death benefit aspect so you can leave your money to someone else.

Many sports are really cheap. Sure, golf is not cheap, but basketball and soccer are (which is precisely why a lot of the poorest people still play, and excel, at these sports).

Quit saying that they can't afford Powerade (or chips, or coffee), that sort of extreme frugal-nis has already been disproved.

Actually basketball is really expensive. In order to be good at basketball it requires:

$250 shoes
$50 shorts
$50 "breathable" t-shirt
$50/month tanning plan (you need to look good while you play)
$50/game to pay people to go get sports drinks for you while you play (it can be a long distance between the court and the closest sports drink vendor -- and you aren't going to want to walk to one while your tired not to mention how inconvenient that would be).

Where was it disproved?

On a $10 a day entertainment budget you can't afford to blow 20%+ of that budget on a sports drink.

I wasn't thinking of golf when I said most sports are beyond this budget. I played recreational hockey and did long distance cycling. Both would be too expensive. My friends are into wakeboarding and extreme biking and again both are too expensive. Obviously it goes without saying that golf is out.

When it comes to stuff like basketball and soccer you run into the problem that as you get past collage age you won't be able to find a game except maybe on the weekends as everyone will be working or tired from working. That is actually one of the hidden traps with this in that when you are looking for stuff to do during the week your choices are between crazy, wealthy, students, or bar staff. If you find a person in their late 20s - early 30s who is unemployed he is either well off financially or not all there.

LOL at how true this is. I actually had a 5 min walk with a crazy person today telling me about his future hip hop career. Older you get the lamer students and bar staff become.

LOL!

Disproved is a little strong, I didn't mean to exaggerate. I told you that I live off $20K, and I often by sports drinks, chips, go out and drop $30. You asked if I lived with 6 guys or at home, and I told you neither, I live alone. Then I put a budget that you agreed would allow for a decent amount of entertainment and mini expenditures like that. But you keep saying that someone with a $40K income can't afford water, coffee, sports drink, etc, and I think it's a strawman argument, so I was hoping we could get past it.

Yeah, there are tons of expensive sports, I was just using golf as one example.

Not really true. First, there are plenty of places you can play with people younger than yourself (like college and hs students). Even if you only want to play with people who already graduated college (a silly requirement) there are plenty of places that have organized pick up basketball games (often at night, but not always). There are often other places that have outdoor courts where plenty of people go. And if you really wanted to, you could be the one who organized by calling schools and getting gyms for various times and hosting an open-gym/pick-up.

Using you as an example is not really realistic as you live somewhere where everything is ridiculously cheap.

The budget I said was acceptable as a bare minimal exceeded $30k. Trying to sneak the budget up to $40k isn't realistic. $30k is already assuming a 6% return which is in my opinion is already too generous for the vast majority of investors. The realistic budget is more like $26-28k but we are using $30k to be generous.

Part of the problem is that people are assuming that there is an army of other people who make $30k around to spend time with. There isn't. People who make that are busy working and being tired from working. They might do something on the weekend but they are just not available enough to work for our hypothetical. Generally the type of people who would be available have money and engage in activities that cost more than $10.

A lot of things that are getting tossed as being 'too expensive' are things that require one-time outlays and things that people already have.

Hockey gear, basketball gear, a guitar, a hunting rifle of a fishing pole... If the hypothetical has evolved to the margins of reality, where we're now talking about plucking a semi-nude caveman from prehistory and his living work-free in the modern world for the rest of his life off 1mm, yes, that puts a wrinkle in things since we have to outfit him with everything that could potentially be needed in life.

For a lot of us, we already own our hunting rifles and guitars and drums and hockey gear, can entertain ourselves almost endlessly with them and as such, don't bear much of a running expense to participate in those things. I mean, I drink coffee. Do I have to expense a coffee pot from the 1mm, or can we assume that everyone already has one?

Wrong. Major US city with an above average cost of living. I also used myself as an example, because it's significantly less than the amount in question ($20K).

I was just going off $40K because it was a popular amount used in this thread, and I didn't see anyone say it was wrong (not saying nobody did, just that I don't remember anyone attacking that figure). Obviously $30K is less, but again, it's silly to say you have to live with a bunch of roommates and can't afford to buy a cup of coffee or a sports drink.

Possibly true, but I didn't think we were really arguing that, I thought we were talking about how far $30K or $40K can get you. You claim one cannot afford to buy a sports drink, I'm saying that's silly, you wouldn't be that poor.

I'm not talking about the gear -- I assumed the person had all the gear. Just the ice rental was $15-20 per person when I played and we usually rented it around midnight.

I would love to see pictures of your dwelling if you are living in a major city by yourself and paying rent while having a life on $20k.

We agreed that $300/month was the entertainment budget. That works out to $10 a day. If you have $10 a day in discretionary spending are you going to spend $2 on a sports drink?

We are talking about can you live on $30k and be comfortable. We all agree that being a major introvert that plays video games and watches TV everyday makes it possible. Normal people though need social interaction and want to leave the house. As such the kind of people who you have available to you matter. We are assuming the individual wants friends -- now what kind of people are available to do stuff during the week?

Fine, I'll drop it. There's no way I can convince you that you can own an apartment in decent cities for less than $600-$700 a month.

You said my budget was ok.

$1000 on apartment related stuff
$1000 for entertainment
$500 for food
$500 for miscellaneous

With this budget, I wouldn't really be sweating the sports drink or cup of coffee.

I think that budget could survive although still be careful and yes I agree it is more acceptable to spend $2 if you have a $33/day budget. The problem though is to afford that budget you need a 8.25%+ ROI which is way too optimistic for most people.

This is absolutely the most moronic discussion I've ever witnessed.

The fact that either / both of you are over the age of 12 is just embarassing.

Your 'plan' to make a ton of cash and live off the interest in some low level existence where you literally have 24 hours / day of free time but somehow allocate almost nothing to your entertainment budget and obviously are alone since no respectable woman would be with a millionaire that lived liked that and spent most of the day on the couch is basically nothing more than an exercise in mental masterbation.

I agree, but what else is the point of an online forum if we're to eliminate mental masturbation?

Numbers from hunting/fishing/golf. I think I've posted before that I live in a rural area by choice, and grew up in a rural area. I have lived on Nob Hill in San Francisco and worked on Montgomery Street so yes, I know what I am missing. My retirement plan, which involves significantly more than $1M to live on, has me moving back to San Francisco. I'll use examples for Nor. Cal. since it is what I know.

The key is to not buy new or pay retail if it can be avoided.

Golf:

700 one time for lightly used clubs + bag.
400 one time + 1144/yr membership at a nice local course
50/mo budget for tees, balls, gloves, regripping, shoes etc.

Fishing:

2500 one time for outfitted used kayak w/ all electronics, paddle, PFD, wetsuit, speargun, crab pots etc.
200/yr budget for new poles, reels, etc.
100/yr for license + tags in state
200/mo budget for lures, bait, new line, etc.

Hunting:
800 one time for clothing/jacket/etc.
500 one time for used camper/trailer
400 one time for new shotgun
1000 one time for new rifle + optics
300/yr budget to replace boots,socks,undershirts, clothes as they wear etc.
50/mo for ammunition
50/mo for travel expense
100/yr license and tags in state
learn how to do your own processing and no taxidermy

Obv. we need a 4WD vehicle as well, 8k used one time with 200/mo maintenance/replacement budget.

Totals:
One time - $14,300
Monthly expense - ~$655

Of course we need a house and land to store all of this stuff, which won't break the budget in a decent rural area.

This is just for a local duffer/sportsman. Obv. you aren't going to be on the pro bass tournament circuit or playing a different golf course every week, but it isn't a bad life.

People that float ideas like this are almost always unhappy in their current job and therefore have almost no chance of accumulating the large savings necessary to live off interest. People that are able to accumulate serious wealth almost always enjoy what they do and want to continue doing it. Looking at the f*cking Forbes 100 list, how many of those BILLIONAIRES are retired? (Answer: <5)

Never mind the obvious differences in lifestyle choices and those arent static. ie Take your avg lazy sob that thinks this is a half decent idea, he starts making some money, all of the sudden he can get a decent hot chick, they get serious and now he realizes that the money he needs to get by is 1/10 what she needs but the sex is too good so he adjusts.

I don't take issue with debates that are largely academic but its brutally obviously that this scenerio is flawed.

I originally thought this thread was silly, but upon reflection I think it demonstrates a wide chasm between posters expectations and perceptions of reality.

It very pointedly shows the difference in costs of a rural lifestyle and an urban lifestyle.