The "I have XX money to invest, where should I put it?" Thread

[miktau]

Thanks for the advice, I was thinking something along these lines but wasn't really sure exactly.

[Adreno]

Country you live in: Finland
Income: $50 - $150k / year from poker
Risk Tolerance: Very high
Timeframe for investment: 10+ years
Debt: none

Looking to invest a portion of my bankroll into highest EV possible. I don't know much about investing but after some serious googling it seems the highest long term gains come from buying stock directly (is this correct? correct for amateur stock traders also?) Right now I have about $10k in stock funds but I got the understanding the ~1.5% yearly costs of stock funds are not worth the value of having professionals actively trading stock for you. Is there some analytical system to learn the type of trading where you buy stock directly from small companies and then sit on it for 20 years?

Are there some alternatives to stock, when looking at EV for long term investments?

[THAKID]

miktau... my advice would be put all your money in a 4 year cd.... your life/plans/ambitions might change alot by the time your ready to graduate... but you don't really need to be messing with that money until then

[ArturiusX]

Originally Posted by Adreno

Country you live in: Finland
Income: $50 - $150k / year from poker
Risk Tolerance: Very high
Timeframe for investment: 10+ years
Debt: none

Looking to invest a portion of my bankroll into highest EV possible. I don't know much about investing but after some serious googling it seems the highest long term gains come from buying stock directly (is this correct? correct for amateur stock traders also?) Right now I have about $10k in stock funds but I got the understanding the ~1.5% yearly costs of stock funds are not worth the value of having professionals actively trading stock for you. Is there some analytical system to learn the type of trading where you buy stock directly from small companies and then sit on it for 20 years?

Are there some alternatives to stock, when looking at EV for long term investments?

You could invest in high return bonds as well, with a good chance of default. Although bonds for the average man are an even bigger sucker play than high risk stocks.

I'd maybe look to invest internationally in riskier emerging markets as a % (maybe like 30%?), and put another 20% in a few up and coming stock picks, then put the rest in an index in your home country. Don't do China though, its too late for that market, its already bubbling and its a luckfest whether you can time it properly. Instead look for something more under exposed but with potential; south american funds, asian countries other than China, etc. Do your research, come up with an idea, balance your portfolio, then pull the trigger. Let time work its magic.

[Phoenix Rising]

Country: USA
Income: Poker - Just starting to play again after ~4 months (spent time abroad), let's assume very conservative $3k/month for the time being.
Risk Tolerance: Moderate
Timeframe for Investment: Unsure, see below
Debt: $0
Amount to Invest: $100k
Age: 22

I just graduated college, went on a 2 month backpacking trip to AUS/NZ and I'm back in the States with $100k to my name and no job. I think my 'big plan' involves finding some kind of job/internship (which I've started to hunt down already), trying to print out money playing poker around 3 hours a day, and learning as much as I can about real estate. I live in Southern California, where foreclosures and such are abundant (and are going to be moreso in the future) so I figure focusing on RE knowledge could potentially make me a lot of money.

For now, I have around 15% of the 100% in a portfolio of ETF's that I chose in April 2007, which I haven't touched since save for selling my bond fund. 21% is in a money market right now, I've got a Roth IRA that I've been contributing to since I was 17 (which I didn't include in the $100k figure), and the rest is online/out on stake/etc.

Right now I don't have a place to live - I got back a few days ago and am searching for a place while living at home, and other than rent expense my only expenses would be cell, food, gas, various insurances, and entertainment. My poker income should be able to easily cover that provided I put in enough volume. I'm wondering if any of you more experienced guys would be willing to chat/ take a look at my ETF portfolio. Ideally I'd like to get my foot in the door with RE with the money I have, I joined my local RE club today and plan to go to the next meeting and have been searching/emailing about RE jobs/internships, so if anyone has experience there that would be amazing. I'm not sure if I have enough capital to get in the door though. Thanks for reading and in advance, thanks for the replies.

Kevin

[Adreno]

Originally Posted by ArturiusX

I'd maybe look to invest internationally in riskier emerging markets as a % (maybe like 30%?), and put another 20% in a few up and coming stock picks, then put the rest in an index in your home country. Don't do China though, its too late for that market, its already bubbling and its a luckfest whether you can time it properly. Instead look for something more under exposed but with potential; south american funds, asian countries other than China, etc. Do your research, come up with an idea, balance your portfolio, then pull the trigger. Let time work its magic.

First off: THANK YOU

Reading that a ton of questions popped into my head, I'd appreciate it if you bother to answer:

1. Why index in my home country (vs. index of a specific country or continent)
2. If I want to buy stock of a specific area, say south america, which is best for me in EV sense:
a) actively managed stock fund with 2% yearly fees
b) index fund with 0.5% yearly fees
3. What do you mean up and coming stock picks?
4. I was trying to find Finnish companies that offer index funds in Asia/south america, and then only one I could find was:

https://www.evli.com/web/FI/en/priva...ds/equity/JAQI

I could of course invest in index funds located in other countries but I'm sure things will be a lot easier for me if I invest with an entity that is operating from Finland (apparantly EVLI, which operates from Finland, invests in AXA Rosenberg's Japan index fund, which I'm guessing operates from Japan).

+ Asia (non china)
+ Low fees
+ High risk

I thought I might just shove 20% into it, what do you think?

[nuclear500]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Rising

and the rest is online/out on stake/etc

Unless the money is immediately attainable, it is not liquid and therefore you should not consider it part of your available cash. In fact, I wouldn't even consider it at all. There exists the chance it will never come back to you. Keep track of it, but don't even think about using it otherwise. You might say the same about other investments but usually people sell before they lose everything so they get SOMETHING back.


If you are considering RE then you should probably NOT invest this money in anything other then bond funds or something else that is easily available and safe. Maybe even just keep it immediately liquid in a money market account. I don't quite know how RE investing works thats what spex' thread is for.

[nuclear500]

Originally Posted by Adreno

First off: THANK YOU

Reading that a ton of questions popped into my head, I'd appreciate it if you bother to answer:

1. Why index in my home country (vs. index of a specific country or continent)

In the style of Buffett, stick to what you know best.

2. If I want to buy stock of a specific area, say south america, which is best for me in EV sense:
a) actively managed stock fund with 2% yearly fees
b) index fund with 0.5% yearly fees

Depends. The great term of Poker and investing. If an actively managed fund can achieve greater then 2.5% of the index fund, then the active fund is the way to go. But the question is: will the active fund do it over the long term? Many do not.

[Adreno]

Originally Posted by nuclear500

In the style of Buffett, stick to what you know best.

Well, I don't know about the stock index of Finland a single bit more than I know of the stock index of Japan

Depends. The great term of Poker and investing. If an actively managed fund can achieve greater then 2.5% of the index fund, then the active fund is the way to go. But the question is: will the active fund do it over the long term? Many do not.

The way I look at it, and I don't know if it's correct, is that stock funds and other big investors play poker against each other and pay rake from every hand. Actively managed funds play more hands so they pay more rake than passively managed funds. As a group passively managed funds make more profit in the long run because they pay less rake. Because of the huge variance in stock market, a regular person like myself can't really know which players remain winners in the long run (making more profit than their comparison index). I should have better EV by staking passive players who pay less rake. Is that right?

[nuclear500]

Originally Posted by Adreno

The way I look at it, and I don't know if it's correct, is that stock funds and other big investors play poker against each other and pay rake from every hand. Actively managed funds play more hands so they pay more rake than passively managed funds. As a group passively managed funds make more profit in the long run because they pay less rake. Because of the huge variance in stock market, a regular person like myself can't really know which players remain winners in the long run (making more profit than their comparison index). I should have better EV by staking passive players who pay less rake. Is that right?

You have the idea right, but thats what the expense ratio details for you.

If the pure index returns 10%, your Real Return in the index fund/ETF is 9.5% after the .5% ER, minus any brokerage commission if it wasn't free.

If the active fund that benchmarks against the index actually returns 12% then you've gained .5% more then the passive fund would have. So thats why you want the active fund to have higher returns to make it worth the expense.

Compounding that tiny .5% would add up over time. A $10k investment that has a CAGR or 9.5% is $152,203.13 after 30 years. With a CAGR of 10% its $174,494.02. Difference of 14.6% Going out even further to 50 years and its approx $853k to $1.06m, 25% more.

But the big question is: will the active fund do it over the long term? Many do not. Can you pick the ones that do?

[Phoenix Rising]

Originally Posted by nuclear500

Unless the money is immediately attainable, it is not liquid and therefore you should not consider it part of your available cash. In fact, I wouldn't even consider it at all. There exists the chance it will never come back to you. Keep track of it, but don't even think about using it otherwise. You might say the same about other investments but usually people sell before they lose everything so they get SOMETHING back.


If you are considering RE then you should probably NOT invest this money in anything other then bond funds or something else that is easily available and safe. Maybe even just keep it immediately liquid in a money market account. I don't quite know how RE investing works thats what spex' thread is for.

Thanks for the advice. I only counted the stake because it's nearing the end of the term, he's up and it'd take a massive downswing to change it. I just transferred all of my money out of my MM into INGDirect savings in order to get an extra 1% of interest. Small, but it helps. I thought about CD's but figured I'd rather have it more liquid than that. Joined the local real estate club and am doing a lot of research, so I guess keeping everything in my ING acct. is the best idea right now.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Adreno

4. I was trying to find Finnish companies that offer index funds in Asia/south america, and then only one I could find was:

Finding index funds in Finland (when investing some 10k's) isn't so easy. I've put some money to Seligson's Finnish stock index, which to my knowledge is the only fund based on Finnish stocks. (They have also a exchange traded fund, ETF, based on Finnish stocks.) In all they have a few other index funds.

To buy emerging market's ETF's you probably need to buy them abroad.

A good source for information is Kauppalehti's board.

[Adreno]

I was at Tapiola bank and Evli today talking about investment possibilities. I'm gonna forget Japan (and China). Tapiola wanted to sell me their emerging markets fund, which I already have 4ks in. They predicted South America and Asia/pacific sea, easten europe/russia to have most potential (yeah I know that's like 1/3 of the globe). Evli wanted to sell me their European High Yield fund, which is so far about 50% up this year, and they predict it will rise another 1-2 years. Turns out they also have a free web system for buying stock, which is insane when ALL the banks in Finland charge a lot for the same thing. Maybe I should just read like a few books and then "buy and hold" stock through Evli?

[Salinger]

Hi all, I am interested in a short term investment to hopefully quickly increase my roll so I can buy a house, while the market is good for the buyer. I will not get a morgage because I can't prove my income. I have very little experience with inversting, but I want to learn as much as I can to diversify my income and eventually move away from poker if I am successful.


* I live in the UK
* My income is $5000 - $20,00 per month.
* Medium risk tolerance
* Timeframe of 6-12 months
* No debt
* I have $145k to invest and I need to increase my current roll buy ~30-45% in order to afford a house. But I should also have some income from poker.

Thanks for reading.

[fanmail]

You shouldn't have any problem making 30-45% in 6-12 months.