It would be as soon as the probation period is over which I don't know the length but it is under six months.

Everyone makes the same that is typically how unions work. So everyone who is a general labour makes the same, everyone who is a cement finisher makes the same, etc There are a few designations and they each have their own base pay.

Everyone gets the vacation pay I just can't remember if it is 10% or 16%.

You also get dental, eyeglasses, upgraded hospital, and prescriptions for yourself and family. At the end when you retire you get a pretty decent pension ~$23,500/year and you keep your benefits for life.

The work week though is defined as either 50 or 54 hours so you do work more than your typical 40 hour work week.

Well, if they work 50+ hour weeks it's a bit different, but even adjusted it's something like 80k a year in the US. That's not bad at all for that type of work.

Damn, Canada is definitely going up in my book. I visited Vancouver for my honeymoon and loved every second in Canada.

I work in finance in NYC. I do enjoy what I do most of the time which is a rarity in this field. Always like finance but majority of people hate investment banking whereas I actually find it interesting and stimulating a majority of the time. Obviously have weeks with ungodly hours that flat out suck but I would say 80% of the time I am very happy.

Make low six figures in base salary but bonus brings the number up significantly. Probably my favorite thing about banking is that my salary is enough to really enjoy myself in NYC and then I get a bonus that is several multiples of my base, pretty much all of which goes into savings at this point. I was definitely fortunate in a lot of way but ultimately I got where I was from a middle class background in a small town in TX by working my ass off.

Frankly the issue for most people is motivation. People often talk about wanting to make 6 figures but would never be willing to work 60 hours a week. Or to take the point further these people didn't work hard in school, make good grades, get internships instead of lazing around all summer. Obviously you can get there without crazy hours, demanding jobs, etc. but if you are willing to make a sacrifice it makes it much easier.

Definitely concur on energy jobs paying big money right now. I grew up in oil country in West Texas and have multiple buddies who didn't graduate college and are making ~$70k to $80k as landmen and will be at $100k by the time they are 30.

This is key.

There are some people I know who may not be the best or the brightest, but they seem to decide on one or two long term goals (1-2 years) and they seem to have the motivation, work ethic, and dedication to focus on that goal. 2 years down the line, they reach their goal. And they do it over and over and over with whatever they decide to work on... Incredible.

In contrast, most other people I know decide on something but can't keep their focus and 2 weeks later they are thinking about something else, never actually achieving anything. This probably describes most people.

Agree with this and I would add that consumption and savings on average do go through a fairly common life-cycle. If you are not putting money on the side when you are young and with less commitments, you will most likely have to rely on debt once new planned (house? kids?) and unexpected (healthcare) expensed show up, unless you are capable of changing your lifestyle, which is something not many people are able to do before it is too late.

Here is a graph from Modigliani life-cycle consumption/savings theory



With that said I don't think saving money should prive you of having the lifestyle you can afford, you just have to find the right balance to avoid living on the financial edge.

I dont think the issue is motivation. Maybe it is for the intelligent people, but the majority of people, even with motivation, are too dumb to make it in certain industries. Iv met bankers who wernt impressive but iv never met one who was flat out dumb or average

I'm going with motivation but mostly with inertia, procrastination and just being lazy....

Definitely not clear that this is true. Eyeballing a Case-Schiller graph with a reasonably wide window would suggest that we still have a good chunk of depreciation coming. (edit: or rather, that homes are still valued too highly. This might not mean that prices will drop, just that we expect that current prices are higher than historical data suggest they should be.)


Heh, and we were looking at Philly going "OMG it's SO cheap!" having looked at real estate in Princeton and NYC.

Miller Lite and nachos are the great equalizer.

Not true in my case. Most of my friends under 35-40 have huge networks throughout the country, relative to their local networks.

This.

I rent, and my annual rent is about 7.4% of the home value based on Zillow's estimate. But property taxes here are about 2.5% annually.

Punching those numbers into this calculator, and playing with the rent and home value increases, it's pretty clear that renting is better for me for now.

Plus we like the flexibility of being able to up-and-leave when we want to. New job in a new city? No problem. On the flipside, we're in the middle of a move now, and I hate moving. But I'm glad we are doing it.

You're either overestimating the amount of, let's call it "raw intelligence", necessary to succeed in investment banking, or haven't met that many bankers (though I suspect you have met and know many, so it is likely the former).

"Average" intelligence people can do quite well at a lot of banks, though at the elite banks (Goldman, MS), it would be more difficult (but you could still survive for a couple years, and then hop to do something else). Caveat, I haven't been a banker for years, but still stay in touch with former colleagues so I think what I'm saying still holds true today (jws can comment on this more accurately). From my experience, banking is largely process and a grind - once you get the fundamentals/modeling down for the type of deals you work on, it's not about IQ, it's about work ethic.

I guess my overall point is that I agree with jws, and motivation is the key driver. But you need the right set of opportunities presented in the first place. If you're average to dumb and didn't go to Yale... all the motivation in the world will likely not even get your foot in the door to certain industries. But generally speaking, based on my observations of colleagues and friends across many industries: an average intelligence person with incredible motivation >>> very intelligent person with less motivation.

In most cases the harder worker will do well. Like the common saying goes - the world is full of smart unsuccessful people. I'd take an average intelligence and a hard worker over a very smart person who is simply hard to deal with.

The issue is the best guys are both. Extremely smart and extremely hard-working. Every place has these people, these are the guys who come up with the new ideas and create value for their organizations. "Creating value" isn't about simply doing your job, it's about doing new things that make money or save money for the company. These are usually the guys who really get ahead, and it's not something that I have done or really can do, admittedly. I like doing my job and going home, it's not simply about work anymore. I've been much happier since I've realized this, as killing myself trying to be "the best" really got old quick. Besides, my salary moved up to the point where I hit a sweet spot in terms of working hard and getting paid enough money. Nothing is more motivating than being broke.

Can you put some more definitive numbers to the salary? I mean, if it doesn't bother you. Low 6 with bonus could be 250k all-in, or 140k all in. Just curious what they are paying and at what level in the IBs.

I would figure 120k base with a 100% bonus, but I could be wrong.

Say you have 300k right now. You have 2 options for the next couple years: Option 1 would be buying a nice car, renting a nice apartment and going on expensive dinners etc, trying to meet potential business partners. Option 2 would be saving that money, living an average life while trying to find opportunities to find business opportunities/ways to earn more money in general.

Which approach would make you more likely to earn 100k+/year in the future?

Obviously approach #2

obviously question is highly skewed and bias the way it has been stated, not to mention your personal skill in some area ( like networking/negotiation skills) have so bigger impact on your long term success then just saving money

I am guessing a lot more than that. He is probably vice president based on the tone of his post so he has to be making around half a mil or more in a good year if his bonus is multiple times his base. Some of my friends who are associated in ibanking make about what you said- $250k after bonuses).