Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Business, Finance, and Investing Making money, investing in markets, and running businesses

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-11-2017, 09:16 PM   #1
CandyKreep
Pooh-Bah
 
CandyKreep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,581
First Time Selling a House

I bought my first house in October of 2014 for $117K. It's 3br/2ba, 1,465 sf, and in a good neighborhood of a small town in NE Texas. And while the small town part might seem off-putting, it is actually right next to the biggest employer in NE Texas (outside of DFW), so that's definitely a positive.

The most recent county property appraisal put it at $122K. The Zillow estimate currently has it at $141K. Since I have no idea about this kind of thing - I've rented my entire life up until now - which is closer to the actual value? After speaking to my realtor, the answer seemed to be "neither". I was told that Zillow consistently over-values properties, so don't expect to get anywhere near $140K. Is this the case? Or is my realtor just pushing to sell quick? (she is retiring soon fwiw)
CandyKreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2017, 09:24 PM   #2
Andrew Boccia
old hand
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Real Estate Investing in Florida
Posts: 1,530
Re: First Time Selling a House

Zillow is probably more accurate, but Zillow is also more polar. The county number is probably low, and inaccurate, but less polar.

In general, be careful when talking with your Realtor. It's a pure sales job, where they just set your expectations low and then meet or exceed those expectations, and it's hard for you to push back because they are the "professional."

Trust your instincts, interview a couple of realtors. Don't pay junk fees and make sure they co-broke 50% or more of the commission. If you would like to share with me your listing agreement I would be happy to take a look. I can also help you come up with a pretty good idea of price just based on Zillow and a couple other sites.

If you have any other questions let me know.

I was a poker pro for 8 years before going 100% into real estate investing.
I have my real estate license and I deal with realtors all the time. I have also helped several poker players out with various real estate decisions.

On another note, depending on your personal financial situation, you may want to consider refinancing the additional equity out of your house, and renting it out. There is quite a bit that goes into whether or not this is the right play for you, but IMO it should be considered. You may find that refinancing out 75%-80% of your homes value, and renting it out for cash-flow, is a better personal financial decision than selling it for a lump sum of 90-94% of its value.

Best of luck!
Andrew Boccia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2017, 10:46 PM   #3
CandyKreep
Pooh-Bah
 
CandyKreep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,581
Re: First Time Selling a House

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Boccia View Post
In general, be careful when talking with your Realtor. It's a pure sales job, where they just set your expectations low and then meet or exceed those expectations, and it's hard for you to push back because they are the "professional."
That's the touchy part of the situation. The realtor is my step-mother's best friend and has been a friend of the family for many years. I want to think she has my best interest in mind, but you just never know. At any rate, there would be some serious collateral damage to going with another realtor in terms of my family life. But if this could be the difference between multiple thousands of dollars, I may have to do just that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Boccia View Post
Trust your instincts, interview a couple of realtors. Don't pay junk fees and make sure they co-broke 50% or more of the commission. If you would like to share with me your listing agreement I would be happy to take a look. I can also help you come up with a pretty good idea of price just based on Zillow and a couple other sites.

If you have any other questions let me know.
Thank you. Very kind of you to offer. I may have to take you up on that after the wheels get moving on this (it's still very much in early stage, waiting to hear back from her after she runs "comps")


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Boccia View Post
On another note, depending on your personal financial situation, you may want to consider refinancing the additional equity out of your house, and renting it out. There is quite a bit that goes into whether or not this is the right play for you, but IMO it should be considered. You may find that refinancing out 75%-80% of your homes value, and renting it out for cash-flow, is a better personal financial decision than selling it for a lump sum of 90-94% of its value.

Best of luck!
I actually looked into this after doing some general research online. I applied for a refi with my mortgage broker but was told it wouldn't happen because of my credit score (my credit was respectable before I bought the house but then it took a massive dump after I racked up credit card debt fixing various things that I didn't have cash to pay for)
CandyKreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 10:07 AM   #4
nyc999
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
nyc999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,954
Re: First Time Selling a House

My experience with Zillow has been appraisals which are fairly off. My last home sold for 8% above the Zillow estimate and I'm pretty sure my current home is off by 5%-10% - the site doesn't take improvements into account very well. However this may be regional.

Definitely secure appraisals from multiple realtors. A lowball appraisal sounds strange to me as well - my belief was there are usually issues the other way (over-promising on the sale price to win the business).
nyc999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 10:49 AM   #5
CandyKreep
Pooh-Bah
 
CandyKreep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,581
Re: First Time Selling a House

I think my relator probably feels that she can convince me to list it under-value because A) the family friend element B) the fact that she found me the house and believes I will go with her by default.

Also, I misquoted the Zillow estimate. It's actually $144K... I don't know I just have this strange feeling that she's going to advise me to list it for something like $125K.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...ue&view=public
CandyKreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 11:18 AM   #6
Andrew Boccia
old hand
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Real Estate Investing in Florida
Posts: 1,530
Re: First Time Selling a House

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyc999 View Post
My experience with Zillow has been appraisals which are fairly off. My last home sold for 8% above the Zillow estimate and I'm pretty sure my current home is off by 5%-10% - the site doesn't take improvements into account very well. However this may be regional.

Definitely secure appraisals from multiple realtors. A lowball appraisal sounds strange to me as well - my belief was there are usually issues the other way (over-promising on the sale price to win the business).
Realtors do not do appraisals (unless they are also happen to be a licensed appraiser.) Realtors can give you a "professional opinion of price," typically called a BPO, but there is a difference.
Andrew Boccia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 11:26 AM   #7
nyc999
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
nyc999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,954
Re: First Time Selling a House

Wasn't really going for exact terminology, was referring to their suggested listing price.
nyc999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 11:33 AM   #8
de captain
veteran
 
de captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Been around
Posts: 2,419
Re: First Time Selling a House

Are you referring to the county's assessed value for taxes as opposed to the county's "appraisal"? I don't think counties do appraisals. Assessed values are almost always way below market value especially if you've recently made improvements.

Assessed vs. Appraisal
de captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 11:39 AM   #9
jalexand42
Hypothetical Ubermonkey
 
jalexand42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Open Shoving My Range
Posts: 4,974
Re: First Time Selling a House

Ask the realtor to show you comp sales. Then you can see what sales for similar houses nearby have been for.
jalexand42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 12:08 PM   #10
Didace
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Didace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 10,974
Re: First Time Selling a House

County assessment numbers are fiction.

In my area everything sells for more that Zillow's estimate.

Definitely have the Realtor provide area comps and the current trends. Don't just let her give it verbally. Insist on a written report.
Didace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 01:26 PM   #11
CandyKreep
Pooh-Bah
 
CandyKreep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,581
Re: First Time Selling a House

Quote:
Originally Posted by de captain View Post
Are you referring to the county's assessed value for taxes as opposed to the county's "appraisal"? I don't think counties do appraisals. Assessed values are almost always way below market value especially if you've recently made improvements.

Assessed vs. Appraisal
Yes, the $122K I mentioned was the assessed value for property tax purposes.
CandyKreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 01:29 PM   #12
de captain
veteran
 
de captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Been around
Posts: 2,419
Re: First Time Selling a House

Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyKreep View Post
Yes, the $122K I mentioned was the assessed value for property tax purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Didace View Post
County assessment numbers are fiction.
.
de captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 06:45 AM   #13
ahnuld
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ahnuld's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: buy side
Posts: 17,267
Re: First Time Selling a House

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalexand42 View Post
Ask the realtor to show you comp sales. Then you can see what sales for similar houses nearby have been for.
bingo. all realtors have access to prior transactions in the neighborhood.

Then use your judgement. List it on the high side and if there are no offers or low offers then haggle. But if I were you choose an agent who can get clients in but you set the price.
ahnuld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 11:29 AM   #14
DuckU
adept
 
DuckU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tracktown USA
Posts: 1,034
Re: First Time Selling a House

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnuld View Post
bingo. all realtors have access to prior transactions in the neighborhood.

Then use your judgement. List it on the high side and if there are no offers or low offers then haggle. But if I were you choose an agent who can get clients in but you set the price.
+1 get comp sales. I use a combination of Zillow, Trulia, and Redfin websites to get a sense of recent sales in area. A $ per sq. ft, can be helpful in figuring out pricing range.

Realtors are the nut low, barrier to entry in that field is pretty low, and most are just trying to make the sale and get their 2.5% to 3% end of commission. They just want the sale and if they lose you 10k in equity in their minds, so what only cost them like $250 but cost you $9500 (assuming 5% commish for realtors)

If you really want to sell, find the most comparable place currently on market in your area and then price it $1k or 2k below that house. Otherwise, as recommended above price on high end and be prepared to haggle a bit...
DuckU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 10:22 PM   #15
farrispoker
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: New Hampshire/Tampa FL
Posts: 22
Re: First Time Selling a House

+1 Zillow
farrispoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2017, 04:07 PM   #16
Rizzeedizzee
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,988
Re: First Time Selling a House

Apparently some feel that Zillow UNDERvalues prices: https://www.washingtonpost.com/reale...=.88b804abd564

FWIW, I wouldn't go near a real estate agent who's retiring soon, since this is an industry that's increasingly focused on technology advancements. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying you flock to a 20-something either, but most of the older agents I come across strike me people who wouldn't still even be able to compete were it not for the market being so great. The sweet spot is likely someone in their 30s or 40s who lives in or near the area and has kids.
Rizzeedizzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 10:57 AM   #17
calmasahinducow
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,385
Re: First Time Selling a House

Zillow accuracy depends on neighborhood. The algorithm is heavily dependent on comps and $/square foot. In my zip code, which is undergoing heavy gentrification, home values are easily 100k-200k under what they are going for on the market. In neighborhoods with more stability, the algorithm works better.
calmasahinducow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 01:38 PM   #18
CandyKreep
Pooh-Bah
 
CandyKreep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 5,581
Re: First Time Selling a House

Thank you for the input all. I've been a little absent here because, truth be told, I've been having second thoughts on selling altogether.

My desire to sell has not been for any usual reason. I'm not getting a job in another town. The situation is -- I allowed my ex to move in nearly a year ago for the benefit of our daughter. My ex had been away for a while and the emotional strain on my 7 year old girl was just too much to bear. Now the ex and I are at each other's throats constantly. She has a boyfriend now, and has told me that they are saving up to get a place, but it looks like all talk. She doesn't pay anything to live in my house. I figured this would help to get her motivated

I can't kick her out. Texas homestead law says she is basically my common law wife. I know selling a house for such a purpose seems extreme, but given that I got in at a pretty low point in the market and values have gone up, why not cash out AND get out of a stressful situation at the same time?

I had a long conversation with my father the other day, and he thinks it's a very bad idea. He thinks the housing market will continue to do well, and that selling for short-term gain and going back to renting is the wrong approach.
CandyKreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 10:34 PM   #19
johnzimbo
adept
 
johnzimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: A dumpster behind Jack in the Box
Posts: 1,187
Re: First Time Selling a House

www.ebby.com is a good site to check houses for sale in North Texas, you can search by zip code and look at houses close by and compare size and list price.
johnzimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2017, 12:07 PM   #20
kekeeke
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 682
Re: First Time Selling a House

Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyKreep View Post
Thank you for the input all. I've been a little absent here because, truth be told, I've been having second thoughts on selling altogether.

My desire to sell has not been for any usual reason. I'm not getting a job in another town. The situation is -- I allowed my ex to move in nearly a year ago for the benefit of our daughter. My ex had been away for a while and the emotional strain on my 7 year old girl was just too much to bear. Now the ex and I are at each other's throats constantly. She has a boyfriend now, and has told me that they are saving up to get a place, but it looks like all talk. She doesn't pay anything to live in my house. I figured this would help to get her motivated

I can't kick her out. Texas homestead law says she is basically my common law wife. I know selling a house for such a purpose seems extreme, but given that I got in at a pretty low point in the market and values have gone up, why not cash out AND get out of a stressful situation at the same time?

I had a long conversation with my father the other day, and he thinks it's a very bad idea. He thinks the housing market will continue to do well, and that selling for short-term gain and going back to renting is the wrong approach.
You can always sell and buy something else.
kekeeke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2017, 10:50 AM   #21
Cornboy
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: I have other friends.
Posts: 1,935
Re: First Time Selling a House

I don't mean to hijack this - but I'm wondering if I could get some feedback / questions I should be asking myself about renting my house. I think this might be an OK place for it as CandyKreep is going through some similar things in terms of considering holding onto it to rent.

I'm looking to buy a house with my girlfriend. I don't need to sell my current home to do so. I also have a 1 bedroom condo I am currently renting out. The condo is very simple since I don't have to do anything other than occasional interior fixes. A house obviously is more complicated. I don't know how to price it or think about it.

House:
-3 bedroom, 1 bath in a very rural area of New Hampshire, but close to a major commuting route. Sits on 7+ acres, very nice and large yard, connected to snowmobile / hiking trails. Very long driveway (200 feet). It's secluded, which is why I like it so much.

-Mortgage is currently $107k. Appraises for $160k, I can expect somewhere in that neighborhood if I sell it. I've seen similar sites sell for $170k recently, I feel safer estimating a $155-160 sales point though.

-House is in a good school district.

-House has a pond, and a small stream running through the back. I mention that just because I'm not sure about the liabilities with it and tenants, particularly if there are kids.

-Mortgage Payment + Taxes + Insurance is $1050 a month right now. I expect that to drop by $50 a month in the coming year, they passed a new, lower budget (budget took a large one year bump for some school related expenses).

-The largest issue with a tenant would be yard care. I will be living an hour away, so can't take care of it myself. Ideally a tenant would do it, but that might scare them away - it's a 200 foot driveway and as mentioned the yard is very large. Mowing with a push mower, you're talking 3-4 hours, maybe a little more. 1 hour with a fast riding mower. I asked a company to come bid, and they told me $60 per mow, and $35 per plow in the winter.

-It's not really a financial move for me to rent it out. I love the property, and I'd love to live there again some day. It's not feasible to live there with my girlfriend, she has a good job that she likes, and this house would be too far for her (1.5 hour commute one way). So we're looking in areas that would be more convenient for us both. So I love the area, but should I really be thinking about where I'll be living in 25 years? It seems silly when I type it out.

I'm not sure how to price it for renting, given the yard. There are no huge upcoming known costs - the roof/heating/septic/windows are in good shape. The next thing might just be the water heater. Should I be thinking in terms of "I need to clear $X a year in order to pair for future repairs"?

Anyway, I might not be asking the right questions. If anyone has thoughts/advice/things I should think about I'd love to hear it. Renting the condo has been fine, but this seems more complicated.
Cornboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2017, 08:39 PM   #22
MrFeelNothin
Pooh-Bah
 
MrFeelNothin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: On top of the PAC
Posts: 3,510
Re: First Time Selling a House

Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyKreep View Post
Thank you for the input all. I've been a little absent here because, truth be told, I've been having second thoughts on selling altogether.

My desire to sell has not been for any usual reason. I'm not getting a job in another town. The situation is -- I allowed my ex to move in nearly a year ago for the benefit of our daughter. My ex had been away for a while and the emotional strain on my 7 year old girl was just too much to bear. Now the ex and I are at each other's throats constantly. She has a boyfriend now, and has told me that they are saving up to get a place, but it looks like all talk. She doesn't pay anything to live in my house. I figured this would help to get her motivated

I can't kick her out. Texas homestead law says she is basically my common law wife. I know selling a house for such a purpose seems extreme, but given that I got in at a pretty low point in the market and values have gone up, why not cash out AND get out of a stressful situation at the same time?

I had a long conversation with my father the other day, and he thinks it's a very bad idea. He thinks the housing market will continue to do well, and that selling for short-term gain and going back to renting is the wrong approach.
Awful advice from your Dad. This is clearly not just a financial decision for you- you need to do what is best for you and your daughter. Your house value isn't going to the moon in any situation and it is certainly questionable whether your rate of return would be greater than what you could do with that money elsewhere.

Also regarding the community property/common law marriage you also likely received BAD ADVICE. Common law marriage is defined state by state so I can't say for sure what would constitute a common law marriage in Texas but I am certain it is more than just living together for one year. She has a boyfriend- you are not cohabiting- she is living off you rent-free.

And from what I understand of your OP you bought the house yourself.

GTFO of there.
MrFeelNothin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 02:59 AM   #23
smoothcriminal99
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 707
Re: First Time Selling a House

Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyKreep View Post
Thank you for the input all. I've been a little absent here because, truth be told, I've been having second thoughts on selling altogether.

My desire to sell has not been for any usual reason. I'm not getting a job in another town. The situation is -- I allowed my ex to move in nearly a year ago for the benefit of our daughter. My ex had been away for a while and the emotional strain on my 7 year old girl was just too much to bear. Now the ex and I are at each other's throats constantly. She has a boyfriend now, and has told me that they are saving up to get a place, but it looks like all talk. She doesn't pay anything to live in my house. I figured this would help to get her motivated

I can't kick her out. Texas homestead law says she is basically my common law wife. I know selling a house for such a purpose seems extreme, but given that I got in at a pretty low point in the market and values have gone up, why not cash out AND get out of a stressful situation at the same time?

I had a long conversation with my father the other day, and he thinks it's a very bad idea. He thinks the housing market will continue to do well, and that selling for short-term gain and going back to renting is the wrong approach.
ya I mean if his only reason is that it's a bad idea financially based on real estate prices then you can use the proceeds to invest in real estate that's similar. Can't put a monetary value on getting out of a situation like that with an ex which is so toxic and is going to have to be resolved one way or another sooner or later.
smoothcriminal99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 06:18 PM   #24
rand
veteran
 
rand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 314-oc
Posts: 3,407
Re: First Time Selling a House

google: CMA Real Estate

https://www.google.com/search?q=CMA+...hrome&ie=UTF-8
rand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 06:19 PM   #25
rand
veteran
 
rand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 314-oc
Posts: 3,407
Re: First Time Selling a House

Its just simple arithmetic (but you need input data).
rand is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online