+1 To Brian. Beyond Ldo. Didn't you ever ask yourself why this is a penny stock? Surely other smart people should have concluded that the govt HAS NO CHOICE but to en the conservatorship and pay the shareholders like you say.


"You do realize that no court is going to favor common stock shareholders over taxpayers, right?"

This is the entire issue. It makes current market prices/future rates totally irrelevant.
But I can guarantee that if you strike jackpot in the courts, congress will not capitulate. They are worthless but there had never been a clearer issue for them to defend the taxpayers after they took on 5 TRILLION DOLLAR WORTH OF OBLIGATIONS. 5,000,000,000,000. Yeah, with a T. And many felt personally lied to. And the public will go nuts regardless.

Odds are overwhelmingly its dead money. Laughable/fraudulent to suggest its obviously the other way.

Yeah not unwound completely. Reduced to their regulated maximum mortgage holdings of 250 billion.

I don't understand where you are coming up with a number of 10 years when they have already given back 95 of the 117 billion they were given. So it's complete payback in a matter of MONTHS not years.

Fannie Mae will have returned everything given to them after they pay 22 billion more. On their balance sheet right now they have 160 billion in cash. So this thing is over basically either this quarter or at maximum next quarter.

Also it's important to note that the recent modification of the agreement with Treasury prevented them from having an excess of funds that they would have had the option to pay to shareholders. The 50 billion in tax deferred assets amazingly made it possible to actually pay all of the back dividends that they owed on the preferred stock. That would have left a huge chunk of money that the company would have been free to give back to the shareholders.

The modification of the agreement prevented shareholders from getting that excess money. So the governments preferred stake in the company is not being treated by them as an actual investment in the company. Even with onerous terms the situation became unfavorable to get paid back as quickly as possible which is what is obviously their ultimate goal.

I don't believe their intentions are to make a massive profit in the situation. Their intentions seem to be to get their money back as quickly as possible so that they can get out of the situation entirely.

I wouldn't go quite that far. It is a highly speculative gamble.

They haven't paid back a penny. They've paid a dividend.

Read their 10-q.

They have not been allowed to pay the junior preferred shares their dividends since the original agreement and the preferred shares come first by law.

I'm sure you noticed that the stock popped when the new agreement came out. It was a major improvement over the original agreement.

FNMA not being allowed to pay the common and junior preferred stock holders was in the original agreement.

All in black and white.

I don't think the gov't will do anything more than what the original agreement said it would. Eventually wind them down. Given that they are massively in the hole ($12.87 per common share), common stock share holders are most likely screwed.

If congress does nothing. The Federal government will profit over $200 billion on fnma and fmcc. They have already paid back about 70%. Instead they want to create another boondoggle the Federal Mortgage Insurance Company. What are they changing?

There is only one solution. Completely end fnma/fmcc (there is a bill to do this), end the federal reserve, and end fractional reserve banking. Preferable end the government and private ownership of land as discussed in the economics section.

fnma is a disruption in the land monopoly, however this can done in a more significant manner by ending private ownership of land. The federal reserve caused the bubble by keeping rates too low in the 2000s that is easy to end. Fractional reserve lending allow the banks to create a bubble of debt, fractional reserve lending could be ended in a day. With a stroke of a pen, all real estate bubbles would be ended and every U.S. citizen could have a place to live and farm for free.

Another lawsuit has been filed by Perry Capital

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-takeover.html

!!Attention!!

http://www.restorefanniemae.us/

Grassroots movement official website now active!!!

Please, check it out and support!!

http://www.restorefanniemae.us/

Well, hey, as long as it is the official website!

Fraudulent huh? I really do not appreciate the media with their bull**** angle shooting making me look stupid for owning this stock. I do not appreciate the posts of people in this thread spouting misinformation about my investment.

I've been completely honest in this thread. When I first made the thread I was looking for insight from other people that had some semblance of fairness to it. If someone were to present a fair argument that I had not thought of I was open to listening to that argument and might have been willing to reconsider my investment.

To get called a moron by someone for posting completely reasonable and detailed arguments about this investment because people might lose money is confusing to me.

The forum is titled Business Finance and Investing. How dare you imply that there is any intent by me to add fraudulent information. Up until this point I've been fairly relaxed in how I have presented my argument. But if you and your friends would like a hyper intelligent argument I would be more than happy to take it to a level of analysis that would make it absolutely clear who the morons are in this thread. So shut your ****ing mouth *******.

Relax. My intention is not to dishonor you. I never called you a moron once. [Maybe you are referring to someone else?] What I said multiple times is that to assume like the quotes above is just plain wrong. It could happen, but to take it for granted, like many of your posts clearly do, is just wrong. And its important that some random guy (who already has a tendency to gamble obviously to be on the site) shouldnt see your posts and throw his money into a sure thing because you have given that speculative side as the obvious only outcome.

Also, there was basic information above that was incorrect that someone corrected. But all I've said is that to assume the gov't has no choice but to give up, is just false. Hence, the laughable side of "laughable/fraudulent".

This has been a good thread. You did great with the stock. Congrats. But originally i think you saw what it was- a speculative stock. If thats what you meant by "it can only go up" then we are cool. If you meant what your words say then we strongly disagree and I don't know where you are coming from.

Dont understand economic who has a longer johnson lines. I def don't know a lot about many sectors of the market (see my posts on commodities). FWIW, I happen to know my stuff on FNMA. But so what? Regardless, the posts above are still wrong. The important points why are pretty clear and have been expressed itt.

When I say "only" choice I mean the only reasonable choice that they can make that doesn't create large problems for them. They can do anything they want so in a technical sense you are right that those aren't their "only" choices.

How about if you act reasonable and just book a profit if it works out and book a loss if it doesn't?

A third lawsuit from Fannie Mae shareholders http://www.sacbee.com/2013/07/12/556...amendment.html

Lot of paper flying now.

Yes. Please tell me that you are now at least buying the preferred stock with your money.* None of the people bringing the lawsuits own the common stock.

*didn't comment on your other thread, but you are far better off holding the stream of income instead of trying to sell it.

On your first point that is actually not true. Your second point about my website is right.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=FNMA+Major+Holders

It's not listed on there but if you read some of the news articles it shows that they also own the common stock. There is an effort to downplay that part of it which is pretty obvious.

If that is true, then you should be happy. Gives you more time to buy more. I recently heard a rumor that you have a passive source of income that allows you to by more than 500 shares per month.

http://youtu.be/2a9Lx9J8uSs?t=30m10s


That's a link of Warren Buffet talking about missing a chance to buy Fannie Mae in the past. If the embedded video starts at the beginning instead of at the point where he talks about it, the link above the video starts at the right spot.

They will eventually be compelled to pay compensation for how they have handled the situation. If the government were to analyze the situation they would realize that the political and economic cost of keeping these companies in conservatorship is going to be way higher than the benefit of delaying the outcome is.

Even though there are now 6 lawsuits challenging the conservatorships, it is to use your word, dishonorable, for the government to wait for the outcome of that litigation to compel it to make a decision.

In many ways the consent of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac whether forced or not was a patriotic sacrifice for the greater good of the country. To argue that the GSE's were not absolutely essential in saving the rest of the financial system is completely opposed to the evidence.

The stonewalling on this situation by all the important parties is truly appalling in its unfairness. It is literally impossible to get any information at all about even a timeframe or plan for when these conservatorships will end. A simple statement such as "we will release them if this,this, and that happens" is impossible to get. The SEC is completely unresponsive. The FHFA is unresponsive. Even the companies themselves are unresponsive. The Treasury Secretary, Jack Lew has repeatedly dodged any questions about the intentions of Treasury in the situation.

I'd like to remind those people, including the SEC, that these are publicly traded companies. Conservatorship, or not, as a shareholder I am paying taxes when Fannie Mae in the most recent quarter started having taxable income. These companies are obligated to release all material information about their operations. If they cannot answer those questions under H.E.R.A. than the director of the F.H.F.A., Ed Demarco, has an obligation to add that information in the public financial filings. The acting director of the FHFA is given the power of the shareholders and board of directors, and all rights and RESPONSIBILITIES.

It is a responsibility for him to negotiate in the best interests of ALL parties and to disclose information that affects the ownership interests of ALL owners. Not just the taxpayer(government) owners.

Timely decision making and access to information is incredibly important from our government. The reason it is so important is because no one can quickly force them to answer a question or be responsive. Years can pass in which they can use their power and authority to dodge legitimate grievances. That is why it is so important for government officials to hold themselves to a HIGHER standard than regular people. To be proactive and to do the right thing before being forced to do it. Because almost powerless peoples lives and livelihoods can be wasted away when the government delays justice for the benefit of the time that comes from the delay.

This might be very important news:

Response for MOTION for Extension of Time to Respond to Government's Stay Motion of All Proceedings
POSTED BY RESTORE FANNIE MAE 130SC ON SEPTEMBER 07, 2013 · FLAG
There has been a request by the government to STAY ALL PROCEEDINGS (suspend) in order to place Perry Capital's lawsuit into a priority queue, which the government claims will resolve all other cases.

WHEN
September 12, 2013 at 12pm - September 13, 2013 September 12, 2013 at 12pm - September 13, 2013
WHERE
US Court of Federal Claims

Fannie Mae owns or insures over 3 TRILLION dollars in mortgages. Along with Freddie Mac they are involved in 80-90 percent of all the mortgages in the country right now.

Fannie Mae has a market cap right now of 1.3 billion. Their shares closed at 1.09 cent today. They just earned a profit of 10.2 billion dollars in ONE quarter. Even if you were to take half that amount and multiply by 4x quarters, that puts their earning capacity at 20 billion dollars per year. If you value them at their historical multiple of 15 that puts them at a 300 billion dollar market cap. With 1.2 billion outstanding shares that makes their potential share price 250 dollars per share.

Of course there is more to the story than that and at the present moment they are stuck in conservatorship. The government is being ambiguous about the terms of that agreement. There are 4 major lawsuits at the Court of Claims by high profile law firms suing on behalf of hedge funds and mutual funds that own major stakes in the companies. Those lawsuits have a very high chance of being settled.

This is the real deal. A geniuine once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. But you have to have heart in this situation and hold out through all the time and pain that is going to happen when you own shares in these companies. The upswings and downswings are going to provide all different types of temptation to sell in situations that appear to be good. The reality is that they will be realitively good but not at the real intrinsic value of the investment.

For example you might buy shares at 1.09 and then in three weeks they are trading at 3 dollars and you'll think you have done well because you made three times your money and did well compared to other investors or whatever other ways you determine when someone does well.

Well if the next day a court decision happens or a decision is made that has major positive implications for the value of the stock, your 3x profit will look horrible when the stock jumps to 30 dollars a share in ONE DAY.

Because the potential upside is so gigantic in this situation and if you really want to make life changing money, you have to resist all temptation to try to offload your stock as if you are getting over by taking the quick profits. If this is potentially worth 250 dollars a share and the right news comes out you'll have all the time in the world at that point to sell your stock because the uncertainty in the market will be gone.

The outcome will be known and then there will be a ramp up period as various other add-on events happen that further contribute to widespread investment in the stock. Things like reinstating dividends for example.

What I am trying to say is that the conventional wisdom of buy and hold is many times bad advice. But in this situation it's the best advice in the world. If you own this you are looking for maximum price discovery in the market before selling it at its real value.

This is also a situation that looks like you could lose everything but in reality have an almost zero chance of losing everything for the exact same reason that the stock price is so cheap in the first place. The politics are making it seem like they are going to take arbitrary actions against the company but the Senators and others are just huffing and puffing for political reasons as rhetoric. They have even gone as far as introducing legislation that would be unconstitutional if ever signed into law.

They delisted the companies so that the large institutional investors can't invest in the shares anymore. They suspended dividends on the preferred stock and common stock. They have even acted like the money the companies are paying back is not actually being paid back and that they are going to somehow keep it all.

All the while they know that there is no way they can keep all the money legally. But in this NSA wiretapping type environment people are led to believe that they will find a way to take all the money. There are a hundred reasons why it just can't happen.

That is why this is the best investment in the world and it's simply because Congress has an approval rating of under 20 percent.

In summary, if the government allows it to exist it will be a buy, if not it will be a sell.

settlements > market cap

They will not get off the hook just like that. they will owe **** loads of money for ever and ever

There is no hook: http://youtu.be/dzm8kTIj_0M