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07-19-2017 , 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BABARtheELEPHANT
You mean 20% of what you have left, right?
Pretty sure he means that every time the price doubles, he sells 20 % of the crypto he has at that moment.
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07-19-2017 , 03:15 PM
Apparently parity has a serious bug.

Serious rumors of stolen eth. Dunno if true yet. Rumors that it's an ico ms.

Last edited by aggo; 07-19-2017 at 03:22 PM.
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07-19-2017 , 03:25 PM
Now 2 ico ms stolen

Hack is probably not the right word

Last edited by aggo; 07-19-2017 at 03:33 PM.
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07-19-2017 , 03:50 PM
Now 3 icos

This is a serious bug because it involves parity, full node client that every major business uses to track the blockchain.

Clearly the icos hacked went to Twoshae school of computer and it security. Should've used hsms. If true, the hack amount is very very large.
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07-19-2017 , 04:05 PM
There's an eip for Zk snarks in metropolis.


People are watching this extremely closely.
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07-19-2017 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diskoteque
It's possible that I am undervaluing the utility of smaller amounts I guess, yes.

My thinking is that I should never sell when the utility of my gains are ~zero (i.e. my life changes in no meaningful way). So even though the first $xxx is more valuable than $xxx(2), neither are relevant when the only outcome I'm interested in is 7 figures or whatever.

Maybe my issue is that I view crypto investing as providing binary outcomes - either it ends with life changing money or it doesn't. I don't have an opportunity to make this much anywhere else, so in my view making 10k in crypto and realizing my gains is much different and less valuable than realizing a 10k gain on IBM stock.
I also used to think that it was a very binary outcome, but don't make the mistake of looking at a 30% shot and thinking "either i win or i lose".

I know that's not what you're doing, but on a higher level, it's the same type of logical mistake.

Like in rather liquid democracies some researcher iirc have found out that it's pretty much impossible to gain more than 75% market share without the election being rigged. The thought behind is that in a "free market" without monopolies or a big moot (and i'd say crypto is close to that), there will always be enough people who will cater to a sub-niche to make a result like 75% impossible. Intuitively it makes sense, especially if 5% of the vote will give you 5% of power.
There are other areas where monopolies provide efficiencies, but i'm not sure how much this is the case in crypto.


My point here is that cryptos are very liquid and there is no reason why there couldn't be a currency for online gambling, one for remittance, one for xxx.
Who knows how much it will be niched, all i am saying is that even if the concept of Cryptos is a complete home-run, fiat dies...
whatever crypto you invest can have a ceiling.

This is all theoretical, i just want to point out that IMO it's not gonna be 1million/bitcoin or 0.

It could be 6k BTC, 4kETH, 3k online gambling coin and thousands of other coins.

This brings us back to "how to value" cryptos. Aggo had some thoughts about this, but i haven't yet met anybody who could put a ceiling on cryptos either.
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07-19-2017 , 04:35 PM
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07-19-2017 , 04:36 PM
first official statement

https://press.swarm.city/parity-mult...m-d1f3929b4e4e



the exploit is extremely serious, purported white hat group is sweeping the chain and has collected over 370k eth from this exploit. Tokens are also vulnerable.
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07-19-2017 , 04:51 PM
Well done white hat hackers!
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07-19-2017 , 05:54 PM
in parity "enhanced" MS contract, they left out a specific function that bounds the contract to only owners.

basically anyone could go in and run the contract and behave as owner.


ref.

https://ethereum.stackexchange.com/q...on-in-solidity
https://github.com/paritytech/parity...aee0e8f6ff9aeb




apparently Parity team was partying in Ibiza while "hack" went down. cannot make it up, sorry.


edit: heres a cleaner explanation

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/co...tisig/dkg2qxh/

Last edited by aggo; 07-19-2017 at 06:07 PM.
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07-19-2017 , 06:47 PM



here is technical breakdown of bug

https://blog.zeppelin.solutions/on-t...k-405a8c12e8f7



edit: dude who stole funds is moving them. into 10k accounts, network confirming his txns

Last edited by aggo; 07-19-2017 at 06:57 PM.
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07-19-2017 , 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggo
Now 3 icos

This is a serious bug because it involves parity, full node client that every major business uses to track the blockchain.

Clearly the icos hacked went to Twoshae school of computer and it security. Should've used hsms. If true, the hack amount is very very large.
Please don't mention me in your posts. I also never recommended parity multisig on this forum or to anyone privately.

Storing large amounts with untested code literally couldn't be further from what I recommended.

Thanks.
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07-20-2017 , 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveny161

Short term effects of changing block reward:

Larger block reward --> More miners mine ETH over ETC/ZEC --> More hash power --> More cost to do a 51% attack --> More security

Smaller block reward --> Miners leave to mine ETC/ZEC --> Less hash power --> Less cost to do a 51% attack --> Less security

On the other hand, I do think there's some merit to the argument of lowering the miner reward considering hash power hasn't reached equilibrium with the current ETH price. I've read that the ROI on mining ETH is still somewhere around 400%. For comparison, it's somewhere around 100% for BTC. Ideally, I assume somewhere <50% would be optimal.
WTF do people not realize about what a block reward actually is. A miner calculates the reward in USD$$$$$$$$$$$$. They don't give a **** if they get 1 ETH or 5000 ETH.

So if you reduce the block reward and the price rises due to the decrease in inflation, THE MINER GETS THE SAME AMOUNT OF USD!. I mean how the **** do you think bitcoin gets away with 12.5 coins per block every ****ing 10 minutes!!!!

It's still beyond me that people can't ****ing understand this.
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07-20-2017 , 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemoretimes
So if you reduce the block reward and the price rises due to the decrease in inflation, THE MINER GETS THE SAME AMOUNT OF USD!
Lol. Do you think if they reduce block reward by 80% that the price of Ether will 5x? And if they reduce block reward by 95% then price of Ether will 20x?


Think about the ridiculous implications on the EF's influence over market cap if the above were true.
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07-20-2017 , 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveny161
Lol. Do you think if they reduce block reward by 80% that the price of Ether will 5x? And if they reduce block reward by 95% then price of Ether will 20x?


Think about the ridiculous implications on the EF's influence over market cap if the above were true.
It's kind of a weird spectrum. The oncoming money has to be able to buy up the rewards. The question is whether miners are hoarding or not. I would imagine they spend some to buy more miners and what not and hold some to speculate.

So yes, I do think ETH would 5x if they reduced rewards by 80%. It might even do more then that. Do I think it would do 1,000,000x if they decreased rewards 99.9%.. no. When bitcoin has halved in the past it has done more then just double. Now keep in mind bitcoins inflation used to be high. So when it halved from say 14% to 7% inflation, that's a big drop and a good reason for price rise. Then from 7% to 3.5% is big. But now they are getting to a point of the difference between 1%and.5% which isn't really that much and I'm thinking won't have near the effect.

Go ahead and have the devs say they are dropping rewards to .5/coins block and see if ETH doesn't hit 1k.

Once again, look at bitcoin, you think it's worth over $2k with a reward of 5 coins every 15 seconds?

The hashrate follows the money, the money doesn't follow the hashrate.
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07-20-2017 , 03:12 AM
Quote:
Today, ETH showed a new level of Anti-Fragility:
More than ever, folks understand that a dapp developer can screw up blatant core contract function code, just as failure to follow mission-critical javascript code best practices can allow for a web server hack.
Is internet protocol code culpable? Is Ethereum protocol code culpable?
Anti-fragile outcome:
-Greater robustness in fundamental dapp development standards, and more bug bounties.
-Greater understanding of the tech.
-Holder demographic change. ETH sold with FUD was bought by those with technical competence.
-Price resilience despite massive FUD.
-More White Hat involvement in Dapps.
-A beautiful response from the Ethereum ecosystem/community. No ego-fueled tweets (Charlie Lee) or finger pointing etc. Instead it was a day of education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemoretimes
So yes, I do think ETH would 5x if they reduced rewards by 80%.
How much do you think price will increase when it goes to zero or negative in ~2years?
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07-20-2017 , 09:41 AM
Infinity, obviously. Its basic math.
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07-20-2017 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by applesauce123
Infinity, obviously. Its basic math.
Really hope inflation doesn't go to negative zero then, I can't afford that...
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07-20-2017 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heltok
How much do you think price will increase when it goes to zero or negative in ~2years?
I think ETH would go parabolic. How high, I have no idea but it would be $1000 easy.
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07-21-2017 , 04:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemoretimes
...

Okay. That's fair. I disagree with your opinion that the price would increase that much. Guess we'll have to see what happens.

I would be more inclined to agree with you if the current ROI on eth mining wasn't >300%. "Hash rate follows the price" is definitely true, but in Eth's case, it hasn't followed it to the point that we've seen in Bitcoin, where ROI for most miners would be < 100%, I imagine. What I would love to see is the Eth hashrate increase another 2-3x while Eth price stays the same. Then from that point, I would agree that a block reward decrease would result in a higher equilibrium price.
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07-21-2017 , 10:22 AM
Any talk of reversing the hack transactions?
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07-21-2017 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rant
Any talk of reversing the hack transactions?
https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/s...82650026631168
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07-25-2017 , 04:55 PM
Very sad that Kazuya and Two Shae have abandoned this thread.


Throughout 2014-2015, no one who advocated for Bitcoin previously decided to run away. TC, I, housenuts, and a few others took our beating like men on the way down.



heres a new ICO bulletin by the sec

https://www.investor.gov/additional-...coin-offerings
here is their research on dao
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/inves...t/34-81207.pdf


they are coming.


Quote:
B. DAO Tokens Are Securities
1. Foundational Principles of the Securities Laws Apply to Virtual
Organizations or Capital Raising Entities Making Use of Distributed
Ledger Technology
Under Section 2(a)(1) of the Securities Act and Section 3(a)(10) of the Exchange Act, a
security includes “an investment contract.” See 15 U.S.C. §§ 77b-77c. An investment contract
is an investment of money in a common enterprise with a reasonable expectation of profits to be
derived from the entrepreneurial or managerial efforts of others. See SEC v. Edwards, 540 U.S.
389, 393 (2004); SEC v. W.J. Howey Co., 328 U.S. 293, 301 (1946); see also United Housing
Found., Inc. v. Forman, 421 U.S. 837, 852-53 (1975) (The “touchstone” of an investment
contract “is the presence of an investment in a common venture premised on a reasonable
expectation of profits to be derived from the entrepreneurial or managerial efforts of others.”).
This definition embodies a “flexible rather than a static principle, one that is capable of
adaptation to meet the countless and variable schemes devised by those who seek the use of the
money of others on the promise of profits.” Howey, 328 U.S. at 299 (emphasis added). The test
“permits the fulfillment of the statutory purpose of compelling full and fair disclosure relative to
the issuance of ‘the many types of instruments that in our commercial world fall within the
ordinary concept of a security.’” Id. In analyzing whether something is a security, “form should
be disregarded for substance,” Tcherepnin v. Knight, 389 U.S. 332, 336 (1967), “and the
emphasis should be on economic realities underlying a transaction, and not on the name
appended thereto.” United Housing Found., 421 U.S. at 849.

Section 5 of the Exchange Act makes it unlawful for any broker, dealer, or exchange,
directly or indirectly, to effect any transaction in a security, or to report any such transaction, in
interstate commerce, unless the exchange is registered as a national securities exchange under
Section 6 of the Exchange Act, or is exempted from such registration.



http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1567

Last edited by aggo; 07-25-2017 at 05:24 PM.
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07-25-2017 , 05:24 PM
they're not really going after anyone though. they even explicitly state they are not pressing charges.
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07-25-2017 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus-1
they're not really going after anyone though. they even explicitly state they are not pressing charges.
Is that seriously the #1 conclusion you drew after "reading" that?


Exchanges may delist ICOs, what happens to price discovery then?

Last edited by aggo; 07-25-2017 at 05:57 PM.
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