That's an amazing list, thanks for posting. I would have bet serious money against it being 1/10th of the length. Also, my life is richer knowing this was a thing:

Aggo,

Lol at how easy you get rustled. Clearly you take life pretty serious. Read right past that smiley face I see... Okay well cool dude. I'm glad you disagree with me yet that's your reaction to a friendly wager, that's what it's all about!

Go do your thing dude, and maybe get some fresh air at some point in the future.

Rustled???

I dont post or read posts because im looking to make bets. I do it because its intellectually challenging to understand other peoples' ideas/views/arguments. My bets in crypto are on exchanges, not with some random internet tough guy whose knee jerk reaction for when he doesnt understand whats written in front of him is "lets make a bet."

So whose rustled here exactly? Try hards looking to make bets because they disagree or the guys who actually dgaf if you couldnt understand their posts?

Hence, you being a loser, and being rustled

Yeah sorry to disappoint you but I'm definitely not a internet tough guy and you misinterpreted it completely.

You're in a gambling sub-forum, just relax a bit and open yourself up to the possibility I'm not some keyboard warrior frothing at the mouth. I did understand your viewpoint: I think it's completely stunted with limited scope for a myriad of reasons, so I thought it'd be fun to gamble on the outcome, that's all. I don't think that makes me tough at all nor was I aware that's a potential trigger for you. If that's how you want to imagine it, go ahead - after all, you're an adult and how you choose to emotionally react to something on the internet is your choice. Anyway, I won't derail or respond in this thread anymore. Best of luck (I mean that sincerely)

basically what I'm saying.

my viewpoint: crypto is going to go up a ton over time. I have no idea what it's going to do in the next week/month/year but given I think it's going to up a lot in the long term, I'd rather be in now than later.

Read this
https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/c..._of_competence

Automobiles don't have nearly as strong of a network effect as currencies do.

Interested in hearing what kind of positions you people have at BTC compared to ETH.

That's only because you take roads for granted.

100/0.

I'm a user, not a speculator.

Warren Buffett has famously said many times, “the price you pay determines your rate of return.”

I thought this post summarized my thoughs pretty well: https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/c...tence/dhdkcbv/

It seems easy for a gigantic company to establish their own coin and spend a lot of money on infrastructure to capture basically any emerging market. This could cause exponential growth in places like africa, india, venezuela, etc etc.

If they successfully do this, what does bitcoin and ethereum turn into? They have their own niches, but what's the logic in dealing with bitcoin over a coin backed by mega-Amazon for payment services? Bitcoin offers the payment system outside fiat control or company control, but good luck utilizing it in the middle of nowhere in a country without a sophisticated means to store your e-wallet or manage your ledgers.

Meanwhile AmazonCoin will be building new business in your 3rd world country, building drone delivery systems, building new infrastructure, and those working in this environment can get their paychecks in AmazonCoin to buy stuff from Amazon. You tell me which one sounds more appealing to a random person in Kenya ten years from now. They already have companies like Tala helping break the system of bank credit ratings, what's stopping Amazon from building out their own Tala (or buying Tala) and breaking the Fiat system of literally any third world country? How much money can a company have to really make this happen if they wanted to?

Anyways that's my big thing, curious to hear input. I have my own thoughts on the crypto space and china and bubbles but I've been too busy trading commodities to really trade much bitcoin so I've missed out on the great rise. Basically any comment I make regarding crypto swings or portfolios within the next few years is not gonna be worth a lot. However I am very interested in the fundamentals and what coins are going to be most valuable 10-20 years from now. It reminds me a lot of the dotcom bubble in terms of trying to figure out which coins are going to be valuable when the complex implodes.

Yeah I think corporates are going to crush BlockChain technology, like they have all other open source software. IBM is already well on the way with it:

https://www.ibm.com/blockchain/
https://www.ibm.com/blogs/blockchain...-for-business/

Bitcoin is too deeply flaky to survive. Corporates are going to solve the network trust problems, transaction speed problems, etc, more flexibly and more robustly than Bitcoin's communities can. Ultimately, Bitcoin is doomed due to the unnecessarily high cost to secure the network.

What is the point of using centrally controlled CorporateCoin when you can just use fiat instead.

The lack of central control is what entices people to bitcoin.

You can try to say it's controlled by core devs or miners, but if you look at the scaling debate that has been going on for 2+ years and a lack of change shows the chain is extremely stable and resistant to control by any one group.

CorporateCoin would not be centrally controlled, it would be decentralized.

So Amazon could introduce AmazonCoin, having hired the best talent in the world to build something that offers a competitive advantage over [insert coin here]. Amazon then offers their products/infrastructure at a discount if you use AmazonCoin.

First, they can carve out a more efficient regulatory path. Second, they can build up an infrastructure where AmazonCoin is more readily acceptable in emerging markets compared to whatever coin they are trying to supplant.

Let's say the coin operates as intended in a nation like Kenya or Ghana. Within 20 years the coin embeds itself enough in the financial system where neighboring countries see this coin as a better alternative to their own unstable fiats.

Within 50 years you could see chains of countries united under a decentralized coin and building up business/infrastructures using the Amazon framework.

etc etc

So the hypothetical AmazonCoin would be pegged to the dollar? Blockchain can be a useful technology, but I'm not sure why people think it needs to be used to replace fiat currency.

This goes down a long rabbit hole in terms of debating fiat vs decentralized, I don't know the details enough to argue one side over another. That said, if you can capture a monopoly in something with an alt coin, that can be really useful as technology brings about more globalization. Emerging markets like india, south america, or africa could benefit a ton from an accelerated boost in technology/infrastructure/etc.

One of the major things holding that back, imo, is local strife and local emerging fiats being totally ****ed. i have a trillion dollar zimbabwe note! india is totally banning physical cash! i could definitely see an emerging coin being used as a uniter among a bunch of countries. not 10 years from now, but why not 50 years? companies like amazon or google ought to be looking to try to profit off of that somehow, why not invest knowledge capital into building a new coin?

i fail to see how something like bitcoin can unite a group of african countries, whereas i can totally see GoogleCoin doing that

why not within 10 years? in countries with devaluing currencies, where foreign fiat (USD) is often the standard for trade but has legal limitations (especially in larger amounts and electronic transfers), why can't you see a decentralized crypto taking over? 10 years is a loooong time.

Crazy how you thought of this before Google or amazon did. Maybe it's because you don't understand what decentralized means and how difficult it would be for a company like Google or amazon to create a coin worth anything thats cheaper than fiat that wouldn't be hacked in a day. Did you ever wonder why Bitcoin has never been hacked?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...re-10000-banks

taking over means some kind of integration without a ban from the government holding the fiat. it's super easy for a country to just say "we're going to ban this". hard to enforce, sure, but easy to slow down adoption in emerging economies facing any pressure.

i've yet to see a long term road map that's really convinced me that bitcoin can be a viable currency that's actually used to buy commonplace items from individuals and economies operating outside of the academic/cryptopumper nerd bubble.

meanwhile, all it takes is a consortium of the biggest companies in the world to say "we're putting resources behind making this particular currency work as the global crypto that unites all consumers" and bang, suddenly countries with bad fiat have an incentive to invite a particular crypto because the inference is an improvement in trade/business relations with the companies that sponsor the coin.

i don't see any crypto overcoming these barriers on a 10 year timeline, you need drastic black swans and more fiats legit crumbling for integration to make the proper strides. whereas 50 years those kind of barriers are just about guaranteed to get broken in emerging economies, I think.

Fine, it doesn't have to be GoogleCoin. it could be a new coin that hits the marketplace 2 years from now that solves all the problems we've been having with BitCoin or Ethereum. I see no reason to believe there won't eventually be another coin that will be the new "flippening".

Whatever this new mystery coin is, all it takes is the giant companies coming together and saying "we think this is the one that can be the global coin" and every other crypto gets 80% of its value deleted, permanently becoming delegated to niche coin status.

Perhaps Bitcoin/Ethereum have gotten too much an advantage on the field and will be too big to overcome, but I see this being like the tech bubble where when everything implodes, finding the coin that fits the year 2035 is gonna be the one to buy into; trouble is it probably hasn't even been invented yet.

Clayton, what a great bit of nostalgia with you me and Pete posting in the same thread. Feels like it could be in MHUSH in 2006! Back the issue at hand, a few points... none of these existing coins are finished products. They are open source projects with network effects attracting top talent to develop for them. Useful features that are created on new coins will likely make their way to bitcoin, etherum, and other coins that attract top talent developing for them. So that's one thing that may help give the current top dogs some longevity.

To your next point about corporate consortiums collaborating on a blockchain project to produce their own currency... these are public companies with fiduciary responsibilities to shareholders. I think that creates some pretty tricky dynamics when it comes to creating a blockchain currency both in terms of gaining consumer trust and not gauging them. There have been black markets forever as well, and I think it's fairly likley we will see a push to all digital currencies in developed world in the not too distant future. When that happens I think that will create demand for decentralized blockchain currencies and could actually be what facilitates good being priced in them. Also I think everyone in the world should watch the documentary "the money masters". It's free on YouTube, and while it's pretty damn long it's hard to watch it and not have it shape your worldview. To me that movie highlights what I think is the biggest risk to bitcoin, etherum etc... the entities that have gained the privilege of creating money have fought hard to do so and will continue to if they pose a. If threat to their monopoly on money.

One of the reasons I wasn't a true early adopter of bitcoin is because I thought if it ever gained enough traction it would be targeted relentlessly. That hasn't happened as of yet tho, and the fact a country like Japan has declared it legal currency for transactions is a pretty big step. A lot of these alt coins will be worth literally zero of course. But I think/hope in the next 2-3 years we will see seg-wit or lightning network implemented in bitcoin as well as an etf. Gonna be a sick sweat either way haha, hope all is well with you!

In effect, you are asking the wrong question. They will never be finished products. Like the evolution of a species or planet, there will be periods of relative stability and periods of rapid change.

gold? goods? math says probably goods huh?

I think a gold -- btc fix / exchange that eliminates the dollar as a common denominator will be a tipping point if it ever happens.

In other words governments and central banks? Look at what happened w/ the last run up / crash and China cracking down. Government persecution is by far the biggest threat to btc (cryptos in general).

Or, you might be miss-definning "enough." I can, off the top of my head, think of four Americans, each of whom have a net worth of 2-3 times the entire BTC market cap.

In other words, currently the world would miss the disappearance Warren Buffet more than the disappearance of every single bitcoin in existence.

"Target" might be easier said than done.

Nah. Roads only limit automobiles to a rough form factor and design that's compatible with roads. They don't favor Ford over Toyota.

Thanks guys for all your input, appreciated