Why do people that hate bitcoin post in bitcoin forums?

I've spent way too long thinking about this and the only thing I can conclude is that they are trying to convince themselves that it's ****.

I think it's good that there's discussion of different opinions. Would be nice though not to have the same discussions over and over again, but it's inevitable when new people show up and the thread is 20,000 posts long.

Drugs are a good that produce intensely pleasurable and addictive personal experiences and can be sold for a large profit. Thus it is possible to set up networks of motivated individuals to sell it.

Bitcoin is a currency, not a good, produces no pleasurable experiences, and it cannot be sold for a large profit (because it is a currency), and hence cannot create or fund a network of motivated middlemen to distribute it.

There's no parallel whatsoever.

I don't think any sane person hates (or loves) a digital coin. That you see arguments against as hate means you're probably drifting outside of the sane end of the spectrum.

Bitcoin is worthless for most people most of the time. It has no utility for people who aren't interested in buying illegal things or gambling. Transactions take far too long, it's not a stable store of value, it has security issues that make it far less secure than a bank account, etc. Just because people don't share your quasi-religious love of your imaginary coin doesn't mean they hate it.

The parallel is that just because a government makes something illegal in no way means it won't continue or flourish

People have identification with their mind. Their mind is made up of ideas based on status quo. Bitcoin is rebellious. Thus bitcoin threatens status quo and implicitly their identity. They act in self defence, please don't judge them for this, but help them stop identifying with their mind.

yeah theres definitely an emotional attachment to bitcoin. this is a thread about it in BFI where the price of a coin nobody uses is 3k. I get that this technology is very interesting to people and has game changing potential but 3k is extremely optimistic at this point

there are people with money invested in what people perceive as a bubble. people interested in discussing this are presenting arguments that support the position. if people can only respond to skepticism with "old man gonna old man" then perhaps thats even more of a reason to think theres a bubble. maybe thats a window in to what is driving the price. when you start seeing people on facebook with a masters in surfing, hackysack, and fedoras talking about their crypto investments, there could be a bubble. that doesnt mean people haven't or wont make a lot of money, but i think it also means that at 3k for a bitcoin, people are likely going to see the price slashed a lot more than theyre comfortable with

My main contention with people that hate bitcoin is they aren't backing up their statements. If any of them are shorting bitcoin, then my previous sentence is wrong, but I don't think they are.

Bitcoin = $2,500 now. Let's say this time next year it's $10,000, then in 2019 it's $0. Who is right? The haters who missed out on 4x gains or the supporters who had a very nice run up, and may have sold or may have been caught bag holding.

I guess my point is, if you think $2,500 is the top, then you should be shorting. If you think it has lots of room for growth, you should be buying. But what this thread has is people buying and people saying it's a ponzi and a bubble, but not financially supporting their position.

A digital coin is rebellious now? I mean, lol? That's up there with sticking it to the man by wearing a tinfoil hat or buying silver.

Most Bitcoin bears I know are intelligent risk takers who find Bitcoin interesting and would fall on the "like" side of the spectrum. The only people with strong emotions toward bitcoin are the bulls. I like Bitcoin and find it interesting.

Once again, horrible analysis by delusional bulls.
There's no reliable way to short it. The exchanges are heavily invested in Bitcoin and some will crash if Bitcoin crashes, and/or disappear with your money.

I believe an ETF would be good for Bitcoin, but another trader here believes it will be the end of Bitcoin, as for the first time big money will be able to short it with size, and will also have reason to try to damage the coin/brand. I'm not sure I agree, but it's an interesting idea.

lol wut. What is the interesting parts? "blockchain technology"? Yeah, this has been done before, it's called a SQL database with audit logs and timestamping.

I think everyone can agree that this is the current state of bitcoin. Currently, only a small minority of people use bitcoin for a small subset of their purchases. However, I think you are greatly underestimating the value proposition of bitcoin for this small subset of people and purchases.

If bitcoin wasn't worthless to most people most of the time, it would already have a multi-trillion dollar market cap.

At this point, its hard to say that it's not a stable store of value. It's held its value better than the USD for almost every long term time segment you can come up with since its inception. The only exception is the late '13, early '14 window. Basically, almost every single long term investor/holder of bitcoin is in the black (relative to USD).

And bitcoin has a significantly different security profile than a bank account. I wouldn't say it's far less secure, I wouldn't say it's far more secure. It is entirely user dependent.

-For users that are participating in black or gray markets, where their bank account may be subject to seizure, bitcoin may have an improved security profile.
-For people that aren't particularly computer savvy, bitcoin will be far less secure than banks.
-For people that prefer investment accounts to bank accounts (as most people who don't want their wealth to decline should), their investment account is only as secure as the people running the account (see Bernie Madoff).
-For people that bank in Greece or other areas with similar undercapitialized banks, bitcoin may have an improved security profile
-For people that bank in 3rd world countries...

...You get the point.

Toothsayer bitcoin is a better form of money and that's why it has value. It's really that simple. Compare it to USD or gold on

1) Medium of Exchange.
2) Unit of Account.
3) Portability.
4) Durability.
5) Divisibility.
6) Fungibility.
7) Store of Value.

You can whine about transaction fees or transfer speed all you want, but this will greatly improve after the lightning network comes out.

I would use Bitcoin to buy recreational activities but I'm too scared so I just use it for poker. Do a lot of ppl use it for these things? Seems sketchy af

Why would anyone buy it or short it when they know of the problems getting money out of it?

Now you see, as soon as I see a post like this arguing "all fiat currency is an existential threat to itself", it makes me want to take the bitcoin bulls less seriously.

I've been reading this thread with interest, trying to educate myself, because I find the concept of bitcoin fascinating... but don't trot out the tired old goldbug argument. People have lost a fortune listening to guys like Peter Schiff who keep predicting the collapse of fiat currency. It's not happening. It weakens your argument to even bring it up.

Most of the reason I dislike bitcoiners is because of encounters like this one, with true believers.
I think it is the furbie doll of the 2010s, because it turns normally rational people into blithering idiots. Bitcoin offers no advantage in any of the above categories, whatsoever.

Looks like the Australian government really wants bitcoin to succeed in their country.

In its 2017 to 2018 budget for “Backing innovation and FinTech,” the Australian government wrote:

“The Government will make it easier for new innovative digital currency businesses to operate in Australia. From 1 July 2017, purchases of digital currency will no longer be subject to the GST, allowing digital currencies to be treated just like money for GST purposes. Currently, consumers who use digital currencies can effectively bear GST twice: once on the purchase of the digital currency and once again on its use in exchange for other goods and services subject to the GST.”

The government will also protect Bitcoin businesses and exchanges

More importantly, the Australian government’s new vision to spur the growth of fintech and the digital currency market would most likely prevent local banks and financial institutions for unfairly denying banking services to Bitcoin businesses and exchanges. "

I own bitcoins. Buy or sell them at your own risk.

What problems?

Can hardly wait for centralized payment channels that can't function without value being locked up in what is effectively a hot wallet.

You are factually wrong. It's like arguing with someone from 2012. I am not going to go point by point and explain to you what the words mean.

Me either. How much better would black friday have been if I controlled my FTP $ when logged out

This is scary, funny and sad at the same time, that bitcoin supporters believe anyone who doesn't support it must be stupid or not understand economic definitions.

They don't actually believe this of course, this is the argument of someone who has such a fundamentally weak understanding of those concepts themselves that they have to hurl insults in order to exit the discourse. In fact most probably hadn't even heard those words until they discovered bitcoin.

The hubris and the arrogance of these cult followers is why I come into these threads. It's also why I like to peruse /r/buttcoin and have these discussions, it's comforting to see there are other reasonable, level headed people on this subject.

what problems tho?

https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/06/27/...ptocurrencies/

http://eprint.iacr.org/2016/1007.pdf

https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/...n-1b8147650800

https://qz.com/1014559/vitalik-buter...hereums-price/

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...um-flash-crash

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMark...er&sh=eb6780ab

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...27&sh=06c1d7b6

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments...ii&sh=0c4fc8f3

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1988476.0

https://twitter.com/izqui9/status/874304123868516352

https://etherscan.io/tx/0x766906ca3a...5f8b16852ccf1b

http://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/06/13...or-a-week.html

No one said that they can't be hacked. Only that it's economically infeasible and very unlikely. USD can be hacked too.

https://medium.com/@murchandamus/i-h...l-fd112d13737a

No one said "stable" Cryptos have vastly outperformed USD as a store of value the past 8 years.

It's still early days. Coinbase is pretty damn easy and cheap

This is the bitcoin thread not ethereum. Also, I wonder what the highest ever USD transaction fee was? That's totally the number we should use and not the average or typical fee

I'm actually amazed she was able to do so much with bitcoin. Lightning network is the only way coffee and metro card purchases will work with low fees.

I'm not sure if I've ever spent much time on something I really dislike.

Are all the naysayers trying to win good samaritan awards by persuading others not to get involved in the crypto bubble/ponzi scheme?