I did underestimate the stupidity of people to fall for this **** as well as how big the bubble could grow. Rest assured, I'm playing the long game, and Ethereum will be <1% of Bitcoin's value in 10 years, and 1% is probably a high estimate.

It's 2% now, so a 50% relative loss not a huge deal

If I would have trusted Tom and bought bitcoin instead of trying to mine it I would have about $1,000,000 right now instead of $15,000.

Can you name any centralized solution that is cheaper? Lets say I want to move $1k from Africa to Asia, with Ethereum this costs <$0.01 and ~14seconds.

No? If you use Electrum like I do that is required. Also the miners can be considered "hosted servers". What exactly is the difference between Ethereum and Bitcoin with regards to validation?

I am not sure I understand. Bitcoin also requires P=NP right?

Bitcoin transactions can also be overruled by miners. It might not be the perfect solution to the Byzantine Generals' Problem, but it seems to work ok so far for Bitcoin and Ethereum. Do you have any better solution?

It's better than fiat in the sense that you are not required to use it.

Vitalik doesn't decided ethereums fate, it's up to the miners and the users to decide. It is true that he has a lot of influence over both the users and the miners. But that is very different from the kind of control that for example Janet Yellen has. He doesn't decide the fate, but he influences it greatly.

What was the cost to acquire $1k of Ethereum in Africa and cost to convert that to fiat in Asia?

I've already described this a few times. Bitcoin's scripting allows for fast verification. Ethereum's intentionally does not, as it's turing complete, which requires *every* full node to execute a program to validate the transaction.

No... In fact, most people don't think P=NP. Bitcoin verification is a simpler set of problems than Ethereum validation.


Transactions in Bitcoin don't get "overruled" by miners. They get confirmed. Economic incentives are such that it's extremely costly for miners to reverse a transaction once sufficiently buried under work. Ethereum is planning a switch to PoS, where there is no incentive not to reverse transactions once you acquire sufficient coin.

There is no requirement to use fiat (well, maybe there are in some parts of the world, but not many).

Vitalik is like a cult leader to the mETH heads. There is no de-facto difference between Vitalik and Yellen, what he says will be taken as gospel by the legions of 16 year olds.

TC spitting hot fire

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevo...tator_for_life tends to work out well for open source software. If Satoshi were still around I'd take his leadership in a heartbeat over all this infighting and extremely slow pace of change we have in bitcoin's current state.

Name Project Type Reference
Dries Buytaert Drupal content management framework [4]
Shaun Walker DotNetNuke web application framework [5]
David Heinemeier Hansson Ruby on Rails web framework [6]
Adrian Holovaty and Jacob Kaplan-Moss Django web framework [7]
Theo de Raadt OpenBSD Unix-like operating system [8]
Daniel Robbins Funtoo Linux Linux distribution [9]
Sébastien Ros Orchard Project content management system [10]
Guido van Rossum Python programming language [6][11]
Linus Torvalds Linux operating system kernel [6][12]
Patrick Volkerding Slackware Linux distribution [13]
Mark Shuttleworth Ubuntu Linux Linux distribution [14]
Larry Wall Perl programming language [15]
Matt Mullenweg WordPress content management framework [16]
Nathan Voxland Liquibase database schema management [17]
Xavier Leroy OCaml programming language [18][19]
Ton Roosendaal Blender 3D computer graphics software [20]
Bram Moolenaar Vim text editor [21]
Don Syme F# programming language [22]
Rich Hickey Clojure programming language [23]
Martin Odersky Scala programming language [24]
Yukihiro Matsumoto (Matz) Ruby programming language

Name your alternative way please.

To acquire it was free, it was sent as remittance by a relative in the states. To sell it was a profit for 2% in Asia since there was a demand for them in China.

This transaction got overruled by miners:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=822.0

State changes in EVM gets confirmed by miners like transactions get confirmed in Bitcoin.


Once you acquire 50% of all coins you have incentive not to screw up the entire currency. With Casper/Slasher there are plenty of incentive not to reverse state changes.

You are not required to use it, but if you use anything else you will go to jail?

There is a defacto difference. If people disagree with him they don't have to follow his advice, with Yellen that is not an option. People choose to use his currency and listen to him because they wanted to, not because they had to.

Fwiw I trust people like Vitalik. I have known a few people like him and they have all been 100% trustworthy people to me. I might be mistaken, but I would be very surprised if he was anywhere near as evil and wicked as many politicians and other people with political authority.

Any suggestions for best course of action with Coinbase asking me the source of my income there? They asked once before a while back and one of the options was investing so I chose that since it is somewhat true. They are asking me to be more specific now or they will close my account. I have already withdrawn most everything from there but I would like to have them as an option in the future. I'd prefer not to lie. They sent me an email say they suspected online gambling despite my having always used an intermediary wallet. I need to reply soon. Thanks

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you can lie to them and hopefully keep your account going or tell them the truth and 100% get your account closed. The choice is all yours.

Never thought of this before, but open source as a movement hasn't yet outlived many of the original creators. How will some of these projects fare after the creators start dying off or retiring ?

For the rest of us that do gambling site -> intermediary -> coinbase, can you comment on what your mode of operation was so we can avoid questions from them in the future.

What site did you play on?
Did you only use 1 tx between going from gambling site to coinbase?
Did you re-use any addresses, or did you mainly use 1/few as the intermediate step?

Thanks!!

2%? I see just over 10% according to total value. Maybe less if you discount all the premined coins that the ethereum founders gifted themselves.

Bitcoin is significantly different than the other systems. I view slow change as a feature, as Bitcoin that is corruptible and easily changeable is a worthless system. Changes need to have widespread consensus to even be considered, and without that, it's no better than it's competitors.

If you desire a centrally controlled fiat-like currency, then Ethereum may be the project for you. It has no place in Bitcoin, which is trying to be *money* not a "world computer".



Acquire it was free? Someone had to *get* it. Just because you happened to have some laying around? How did they sell it for 0 effort/cost for profit in China? You need to find your own buyer.


Wasn't overruled by miners. It was overruled by users who considered this an invalid transaction, as it diluted their money supply (something Ethereum is doing intentionally), and miners followed users.



I'm aware. Not sure how that's relevant.


Yeah, except not.


Not in the US. Can't speak for all countries. I can use hobo nickels or gold or confederate money if I want and who I am doing business agrees.


Sure, but effectively it's the same thing. I want no part of it.


[/quote]
Well, if you want a system built on trust and human fallibility, Ethereum is for you. Most trustworthy people don't scam with a pre-sale and set aside massive profits for themselves, or try to roll back transactions that benefit themselves. I'd trust a politician over him. At least it's obvious they are scammy.


Don't use Coinbase.

If coinbase starts looking at the previous transactions or doing some sort of taint analysis, you can use shapeshift to send btc->monero->btc to get clean coins. You can also then say you mine or invested early in monero if they ask. Monero is an anonymous coin so they couldn't verify it even if they really wanted to.

Once again TC doing work, gj

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There will be no 2MB hardfork for Bitcoin from the core team:
https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...6ryh?context=3

That is true for any other currency also.

Sometimes people are lucky and find other people willing to sell/buy without markup. It's not like one person who wants it and one person who wants to get rid of it both have to lose right? They can just agree to exchange at market price.

Also you are very clearly dodging my questions.

I disagree with the term scam. They were very clear with everything from the beginning. If Ethereum had failed they would all have lost a lot of value, thus they took a risk and a reward for the projects current success seems very reasonable. I also took a risk when I crowdfunded Ethereum and the reward I have had so far is in my opinion totally reasonable.

If you prefer to trust a politician over them you are free to do so. As for the other way I am not actually free to do so. The asymmetry is very clear.

As for it being scam or not, can you clarify some terms for how to decide this based on outcome and not semantics? For example how much should the price fall from the presale for it be considered a scam? Or are you saying that if Ethereum increases 5000% 2 years after the pre-sale it was still a scam for everyone who invested?

I had played on other sites before and used BTC but all of my recent transactions had been Bovada>Blockchain.io>Coinbase

I created a new Blockchain address for each withdrawal.

It's possible that they were curious about my transactions, googled me (I have a unique name), and the first and only professional info that came up was poker stuff.

It's also possible that I just made some kind of airheaded mistake in the process. It wouldnt be the first time. But I have looked over all the transactions and everything seems to be done as stated.
Whats the best replacement for me?

I don't know where you live, but try kraken, poloniex, gemini, etc.

Thanks. Which would be best for US. NC, specifically, if that matters.

I like Kraken. I don't know if they take US / NC customers. Your best bet is to find exchanges that are open to you, and then ask about them.

If you are using your coins for things that may be regulated in the US, you are best using things like Local Bitcoins.

There will be a PR if luke-jr lives up to his word. It will likely never get merged.


And one currency is more likely to be what people have. Hey, if you happen to have someone sending you Bitcoin, Bitcoin could potentially be better (until transaction fees have to pay for network security, or competition drives down fees of other networks).

That requires work and is not 0 cost. Meeting up has costs, there are counterparty risks, etc...



If that's the case, I apologize, I'm trying to answer.

Lost a ton of value made up from thin air from them. Huge risk! It was a freeroll.

You've managed to outwit the stupidity of the crowd, so sell while you are ahead.


How are you not free?


Pre-sale coins are scams. Plain and simple.

Sure, but so has the alternative, and they are often much higher.

My question was what your much cheaper alternative was.

They invested a lot of time where they could have been highly paid engineers. I estimate this to $100k+.

Thanks for the advice. For now I am holding, -10% today but I still believe in the currency.

If I refuse, they send people to my door. If I refuse them they will use violence. If I try to protect myself they will kill me.

Why? Please define a bit better, is this correct?
Pre-sale = scam
Pre-mine = not scam?
USD = pre-mine?
(most) Stocks = closed pre-sale?

Personally I don't have anything against presales or IPOs. I generally stay away from pre-mines as they often seem to be scams, but I am not saying that all are. And I do have something against fiat currencies not matter if they are premined, presale or not.