You can recover from a backup, you take a backup seed when you set it up.

The idea is any computer hooked up to the internet should be assumed to be infected. Trezor removes that layer, since it holds all of the private information and can sign transactions without giving up anything private.

Bitcoin are never stored on a device, just the keys to access them. As long as you have sufficient backup on the keys or ways to create the keys, your coins will never be lost. However, giving up that information means someone else can access them.

For holding significant holdings, I'd consider it. There's still risk, as you have no idea that what is actually on the device (software and hardware) is what they claim, and they could have access to all the keys that are generated in some deterministic way. There's always a risk.

I'd also be reluctant to use any kind of early version that hasn't been tested well. There's going to be corner cases they didn't think of and when you lose your coins, oops. I'm not a fan of the price point as well, unless you have a pretty big holdings (>10k?) or are completely incompetent, I'd say there are better options.

Well the thing is im pretty incompetent when it comes to computer tech stuff. Someone told me that you have to keep btc in cold storage to prevent from being hacked.


However they told me if i want to do transactions weekly and for amts $1k+ each time, then paper wallet would be useless for me b/c its meant for long term storage. Is that true? Thus if u keep it in safety deposit box in bank, wouldnt that mean u cant transfer or receive those btc in the paper wallet? Thus u need the paper wallet on you at all times to send or receive bitcoins?


Also i read that if you lose your paper wallet, then u lose all the btc. Is that true or false b/c i read someone said you can always make more copies of the same paper wallet? Im confused at this so let say you lost your paper wallet somewhere but have extra copies of it, does that mean you still have your bitcoin?


Basically what confuses me a lot is everyone says you need cold storage and cold storage is mainly a paper wallet or wood wallet. But these wallets are meant for long term storage where u dont touch them, if thats the case, what are ppl using then as cold storage if they are someone that do btc transactions almoost every week and each transaction is $1k+ and they have the option to always send or receive btc immediately?


Do all of them have that trezor or ledgerwallet device then? Because from what i read, anyone that keeps over $2k even in coinbase or blockchain is not very smart b/c it can get hacked? Im also curious but why do i hear so many accts getting hacked on coinbase and blockchain? Read a person mention he had 2FA on his blockchain acct and his acct got hacked as well.


Just confusing b/c i read ppl who has desktop client like multibit, they still make a paper wallet so that means if they send/receive btc frequently the paper wallet is always on them at all ttimes? Big negative is well if u lose the paper or something happens to it, u still have backups? Just confusing b/c i read it takes overnight do make backups and this is with multibit?


Why can't keeping btc online be very easy like having a skrill account and just getting a skrill security token so u dont have to worry about hackings. I mean theres so many ppl i read that got accts hacked and they seem to do just the regular security things such as strong password and 2FA and they still get hacked. I read someone that said they have paper wallet and they still everyday check it everyday to see if the btc is still there or not.

If you don't know what you are doing, I'd avoid a paper wallet. It's just not user friendly. You need it to send, but not receive.

Any type of key you have, if you lose it, you are done.

I'd trust $2k in Coinbase before putting it into a poker site. Really, if you are trusting enough to fund whatever you are funding in some shady poker site, the risk of storing in Coinbase is minimal. For beginners, I'd just do something like that ,save you a lot of trouble.

Why can't it be easy? Because it's new and there's not a big incentive for it. It's also irreversible, it's like having cash. A lot of people are really dumb with security, and a lot of services are really bad. And it's irreversible, so those mistakes are permanent.

Keep in mind most the people using Bitcoin are paranoid anti-social technophiles, so if you aren't compiling your own OS, it might be hacked, blah blah. It's all risk management. Use reasonable measures to protect yourself, don't expose yourself to too much risk, and you are fine. The amount of hackings has gone down a ton because most wallets use better security measures. They didn't in the past. I see far fewer cases of hacking now than 3 years ago.

Hi. Well i definitely dont have a clue in whatw im doing and paper wallet seem very complicated.


Well first off when i buy bitcoin, it will be with coinbase so the btc will be there. Then i would transfer it to blockchain or someone suggest i download multibit and use that to send to gambling sites. Also the sites that i will be sending/receiving bitcoin from are legit sites such as 5dimes sportsboko and heritage sportsbooks. Also maybe nitrogen sports and seals with clubs so those are legit so dont have to worry about my btc in thtere. 5dimes and heritage actually convert btc to usd first since its not a btc site.


But thing is i want to buy like 10k worth of btc and then transfer it to blockchain or multibet then transfer it to those sites. My issue though is when i cashout btc from those sites to blockchain or desktop client, i read from the bitcoinforum they say always store btc in cold storgage which is mainly paper wallet which u dont suggest for someone who isn't good with these types of things. So are you saying it woudl be better idea to keep 10k worth of btc in blockchain or coinbase or a client like multibit then? Yea the other thing is i want to be able to send the btc instantly so if i have a paper wallet and i read its for storing a long time... thats not what i think is right for me.


Well the thing is i never was worried about these things but i just read lot of ppl on bitcointalk had their accts hacked and many had 2FA so im not sure how this is happenigng to them.


So for me which would you say is the best option for me to keep the btc assuming the btc isn't in a gambling site? Coinbase, blockchain or a desktop client? I just read few ppl recommended me to just get trezor and then i dont have to bother with anything else. Also i read trezor even if u lose the device, u dont lose the btc.... so that statement with any type of key you have if u lose it, u are done with would false then with trezor or ledgerwallet?

Keep a little here and there. That way your exposure is minimized should something bad happen.

Can you expand on what u mean by that? Example i know once the btc are sent to 5dimes/heritage and they receive it, i don't have to worry about those funds. Similarly if i send it to a btc site like nitrogen sports or seals with clubs.


But what if i just want to keep the btc there and not sell it and not want to deposit it. You would suggest to keep some on blockchain and some on coinbase? Or would u suggest just put it on a desktop client like multibit?

If you have no idea what you are doing, just keep it all on coinbase, and use 2 factor.

Yes but the issue here would be i need to send btc to a site like 5dimes/heritage though. So i would need a wallet of some sort. So u suggest just get blockchain wallet then and just send the btc immediately to blockchain then immediately to the site? And if i ever withdraw btc, withdraw it to blockchain then withdraw immeidately to coinbase?


Im just curious but are there ppl here that has 10k+ worth of btc only with coinbase/blockchain or even multibit but dont have a paper wallet?

I'd say that Trezor and Ledger seem ideal for someone who wants to buy a significant amount of btc and be able to use it on a daily basis for gambling sites etc. Wouldn't trust 10k+ worth of btc to any online wallet.

I use trezor myself and am a btc user for similar purposes.

But trust 10k at 5dimes/heritage?

I'd recommend using something like Electrum for beginners.

I'm not sure what 5dimes/heritage are. I meant if you want to play at sites were you can deposit at the beginning of your session and withdraw when you quit the session. You can do this at Sealswithclubs and Betcoin. Probably wouldn't deposit 10k to either though.

5dimes and heritage are 2 of the most reputable usa sportsbooks and 2 of the safest. The money is safe. I had over 20k at 5dimes before and i know there are many ppl that have more than that there and your funds are safe. These 2 sportsbooks have been around a very very long time. The only other sportsbook that is similar to them for usa players is bookmaker. And they probably are the safest of them all

If you are willing to keep 20k plus on U.S. facing sportsbooks I would not have concern keeping large sums on coinbase.

All,

I figure some of you followed this case. Any thoughts on the sentence?

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...road-case.html

So when HBNC launders money for terrorists nobody goes to jail. When Charlie sells bitcoin to some guy buying things that now are legal in many states he is sent to jail for laundering money which is not money according to IRS.

Electrum is a really easy software to use for the intermediate step for:

Coinbase->Electrum->Gambling site
Gambling site->Electrum->Coinbase

The nice thing about that one is that it has some recovery features. When you start it up and generate a wallet for the first time, you are given a string of words. Print out that string of words. With that, you can always recover your wallet in the event you delete it, or F-it up somehow.

If you are only keeping BTC in electrum short term, your biggest risk is that you are going to F things up yourself rather than getting hacked.

After that, it's just a matter of cutting and pasting things. You buy on Coinbase, which will take around 1 week (assuming you don't have verifications set up). Once you have the coins. Select one of your addresses from Electrum and tell Coinbase to send your money to that. Electrum should detect the transactions within a few seconds.

From there, it's usually just another cut and paste of the address to get the coins from Electrum to the gambling site.

As other have noted, if you're willing to trust Seals, 5dimes, Nitrogen with your money...Coinbase is way, way safer than any of those options.

Thanks for that information.


But are you very familar with 5dimes and how reputable they are though? Yes i trust my funds in 5dimes very much. I dont trust nitrogen or seals that much b/c they havent been out very long but 5dimes yes 100 percent.


But if u are saying coinbase is safer than 5dimes, then that means i dont even have to think about anything else then right? If thats the case, wouldn't u suggest me to use keep the btc in coinbase and just use blockchain as oppose to electrum then since they dont require u to download a client... so basically just keep btc in coinbase and when i want to send it, send it very fast to blockchain then to gambling site and vice versa?

Blockchain.info has had some serious security issues lately, I would not use them.

Here's why Coinbase is much safer than 5dimes:

-Significant venture backing with no trouble raising additional cash
-FINCEN registration
-Following AML KYC rules, they are in the US gov good graces
-Have completed proof of stake audits, so you won't get GOXed
-Keep almost all coins in cold storage

5dimes
-long running, good history
-illegally serving US customers - slight risk of gov crack down
-proof of reserves?
-cold storage?

Basically, to date coinbase has followed every good bitcoin practice.

charlie shrem needs a good lawyer.

Figured something like this would happen - Feds love to charge on everything under the sun so you are a fool if you don't accept *some* kind of plea agreement. Can definitely see why Charlie is happy about the result.

Complete travesty of justice, but what can you expect? Charlie was completely naive getting involved in this without realizing the bear he was punching in the nose.

Same could be said of Full Tilt Poker at one point in time. If you trust these guys, there's really no reason not to trust Coinbase.

I've got a trezor. They are definitely worth the money if you are looking at holding decent amounts of bitcoin which you want regular access to. They're very noob friendly.

Well if you had to ask me which site i felt safer with my funds back then if either full tilt or 5dimes, yes i would have said full tilt. But 5dimes is just a site im not really worried about at all.


Yea if thats the case, then i dont mind keeping a big amount on coinbase then.



But in the meanntime until i get my trezor, would u recommend just keeping the btc in coinbase then as oppose to blockchain or multibet? Then once i get trezor, send any btc to trezor?

The only issue with Coinbase is if they ban you for gambling with it. This is a legit concern. I'd avoid Blockchain at this point, they have issues, are potentially liable for the same issues as Coinbase. Electrum is probably the easiest wallet to have on your computer.