Bitcoins - digital currency - Page 57 - Business, Finances and Investing Forum

are the coins actual entities that can be "marked"?

as far as i understood this, there are no coins flowing around. a transfer only changes two account-balances. (but i might be wrong - can someone please confirm this?)

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06-15-2011 , 04:34 PM

#1402

TomCollins

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Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 43,058

Quote:

Originally Posted by e306

I believe this is correct. There are inputs and outputs. If I spend 40 coins out of an address that has 100, I'll have a transaction that has an input of 100, and 2 outputs 40 and 60, with the 60 going to one of my own addresses. Now you could tag anyone who touches that receiving address, and everyone they touch, etc... down the chain.

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06-15-2011 , 04:47 PM

#1403

Freakin

bacon wannabe

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,153

I thought you could track coins themselves. Someone earlier ITT (before Icy tarded it up) was talking about dormat coins. I don't think they had to check every address to see that, just viewed the coins generated by a specific block, etc

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06-15-2011 , 04:48 PM

#1404

latefordinner

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dave_

It is certainly not in the developer's interest to implement any half-effort at security, such as wallet encryption. if they were to do so almost no-one would take the recommended additional precautions, and then they'd blame the devs when they eventually get hacked.

Well the argument is irrelevant at this point because encrypted wallets will be included in the very next release. which maybe it should be pointed out is still a 0. release; ie; we are still in the very early days of the currency and the software with a very limited feature set.

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06-15-2011 , 04:50 PM

#1405

gehrig

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I don't really know the inner workings, but it should be easy to tell if a coin could potentially have passed through an address accused of theft.

So you can a firm that does the following:

1) Consumer deposits coins
2) Firm checks all credible stolen coin claims and returns the coins/sends to an arbiter if the coins are dirty
3) Anyone receiving coins directly from the firm therefore has some confidence that the coins are clean
4) Depositor can choose to hold their coins for no time, 24 hours, a week or whatever to increase confidence that the coins are clean

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06-15-2011 , 04:53 PM

#1406

latefordinner

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by gehrig

I don't really know the inner workings, but it should be easy to tell if a coin could potentially have passed through an address accused of theft.

So you just pop all the coins in a well trafficked coin mixer and output coins to new wallets etc. Are you going to tag every coin that ever touches a coin mixer as dirty?

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06-15-2011 , 04:58 PM

#1407

Acct banned

banned

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 4,604

Quote:

Originally Posted by e306

what do you guys think will happen, when bitcoin would get millions of users and million transactions per day. blocks would get really big and would need to be broadcasted to all clients.
could this potentially deadlock the whole p2p network?

This is a known issue, but there are proposed solutions. Some users have pegged the current system of being able to support 4 million users at the very maximum without large changes being made.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=286.0

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06-15-2011 , 04:59 PM

#1408

TomCollins

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Quote:

Originally Posted by latefordinner

So you just pop all the coins in a well trafficked coin mixer and output coins to new wallets etc. Are you going to tag every coin that ever touches a coin mixer as dirty?

How would you even know it's a coin mixer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freakin

Dormant coins would be easy to identify since they would go to an address and sit there, and no transactions. But I don't think you can track coins. I could be wrong.

One potential solution is to have people register their addresses with an authority and a PGP key or something. They would only interact with people who provide that key as well. You could dispute a charge with that authority and you could blacklist the person from this if they screw you.

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06-15-2011 , 05:03 PM

#1409

gehrig

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Quote:

Originally Posted by latefordinner

So you just pop all the coins in a well trafficked coin mixer and output coins to new wallets etc. Are you going to tag every coin that ever touches a coin mixer as dirty?

Sure why not?

If you use a mixer whose coins keep getting flagged as stolen, then there's incentive to move your business to a mixer (which can be any business but especially a bank or exchange) that has more credible coin outputs

People that strongly desire the ability to launder stolen coins will be isolated and easier to track.

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06-15-2011 , 05:12 PM

#1410

gehrig

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A firm can also just say that they won't accept any coins that haven't passed through a credible node in X transactions.

Now it doesn't really matter how hard a launderer works to create an untraceable path.

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06-15-2011 , 05:46 PM

#1411

Icy-

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hielko

That's an easy way to dodge a question you don't know the answer to. I'm still waiting to hear why the bitcoin market would defy basic economic principles.

Actually this is you dodging a question you asked me that I asked you, since I already answered it many times giving several explanations.

To help any other morons who think they understand the system but don't, heres yet another explanation and a very good one for those just focusing on difficulty rate and not taking in consideration for the many other variables involved.

http://virtuallyshocking.com/2011/05...nd-difficulty/

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06-15-2011 , 05:47 PM

#1412

Icy-

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCollins

LOL @ this. This is even dumber than your normal posts. I'll give you a "mining" program. See if your virus detection finds it. Then I'll steal your wallet if it doesn't. This is incredibly trivial to write.

Fail, maybe even an epic fail. Do you even know what the hell your talking about?

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06-15-2011 , 05:51 PM

#1413

TomCollins

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Icy-

Fail, maybe even an epic fail. Do you even know what the hell your talking about?

Yes, I do.

If only you actually had Bitcoins worth stealing to prove my point.

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06-15-2011 , 05:52 PM

#1414

TomCollins

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gehrig

The trick is defining a credible node. Although I'm still pretty sure there is no "unique identifier" of any coin.

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06-15-2011 , 05:53 PM

#1415

Icy-

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by HundKatzeMaus

anyone knows why the trading volume is so low atm? are people trading over tradehill or are they more careful after the decline?
havent been online all day, yesterday mt gox' site was down a lot

Trade volume is actually normal right now, and is above expected value with the trends it was taking. They had a bubble spike, whatever you like to call it, due to a lot of media attention this month.

Quote:

Originally Posted by e306

Technology increases, price of bitcoins increase, more people buy GPUs and add to the network.

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Originally Posted by e306

Every single bitcoin is trackable and public.

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06-15-2011 , 05:55 PM

#1416

Freakin

bacon wannabe

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,153

how do you ignore users? I've found my first candidate

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06-15-2011 , 05:59 PM

#1417

Icy-

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCollins

Yes, I do.

If only you actually had Bitcoins worth stealing to prove my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCollins

The whole system is so insecure, you have to jump through so many hoops, anyone with a trojan can still your entire wallet so easily. It's going to happen over and over again. This is probably the easiest way to make money at Bitcoins, make a fake Bitcoin tool, then get people to download it, then steal their wallet. Now you are rich.

It's a shame the developers have made security such a low priority.

This statement makes you fail hard, which is why I said virus protection ftw, even free versions detect a lot of them these days. No one can "easily" steal anything from your PC if you know what the hell your doing, and with that statement clearly you don't.

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06-15-2011 , 06:01 PM

#1418

e306

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,815

Icy, how many bitcoins would it need to get you out of this thread?

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06-15-2011 , 06:02 PM

#1419

TomCollins

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Icy-

How would virus detection software detect something that the vendor has never seen before?

If this were true, ANY program I sent you would be flagged as a virus. Now, if you have a firewall, you might be able to see my program trying to communicate with somewhere. But even then, if my program had a valid use for opening a port, you'd allow it and I'd have your wallet.

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06-15-2011 , 06:04 PM

#1420

Icy-

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomCollins

Again, you have no idea what your talking about. Do more research please.

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06-15-2011 , 06:04 PM

#1421

Freakin

bacon wannabe

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icy-

Can we please ban this troll?

Take the example of a program like GuiMiner, or Phoenix itself, or poclbm, etc.

None of my virus scanners on any of my miners detected anything "virus-like" about any of those programs. This does not change if they read a file in %APPDATA%. This also does not change if they establish an external connection, like any miner would do.

Put this all together, and someone could easily develop a trojan horse miner that stole a wallet.dat and uploaded it to a remote server, or emailed it to a remote address.

You're what, like 16? So I assume you're too young to remember what rbcalc.exe was?

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06-15-2011 , 06:06 PM

#1422

Icy-

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freakin

Yeah I'm a troll cause I'm correcting morons who are very ignorant on certain subjects, one being 90% of people here thinking they need to focus just on the difficulty variable in mining bitcoins for a profit.

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06-15-2011 , 06:10 PM

#1423

Freakin

bacon wannabe

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icy-

Don't change the subject. We're still talking about your magical virus scanners detecting freshly created programs that behave in completely normal ways.

What virus scanner are you using that does this?

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06-15-2011 , 06:12 PM

#1424

Icy-

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by e306

Icy, how many bitcoins would it need to get you out of this thread?

Maybe when you would stop talking like you know what the hell your talking about when you don't even understand the very basic concept on how bitcoin works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by e306

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06-15-2011 , 06:16 PM

#1425

Icy-

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 284

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freakin

People create "freshly made programs" everyday that virus protections can detect, because of what they are trying to do in your system.

I'm not saying its not possible, everything is hackable. Its just not everyone is going to "easily" get their wallet stolen like he was saying.

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