Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Business, Finance, and Investing Making money, investing in markets, and running businesses

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-23-2014, 04:07 PM   #51
hanster
veteran
 
hanster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: OC
Posts: 2,712
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

who makes the most money within the supply chain in this industry?
hanster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 04:33 PM   #52
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by hanster View Post
who makes the most money within the supply chain in this industry?
In risk adjusted terms it's definitely the various middle men taking slices off for connecting one party with another. In terms of total sales it's the ship, followed by the trucks, followed by the port, followed by the warehouse. The port might have the best gross profit margin since they are basically a giant extortion scheme.

EDIT: I should be really clear here... These aren't the kinds of middle men who are pure rent seekers holding up the process. They're in a very competitive business where their expertise is legitimately needed. /promiddlemenrantbymiddleman
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 04:52 PM   #53
rafdogg2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
rafdogg2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: run it back
Posts: 6,178
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Any horror story loads?

Do you offer LTL gaurenteed delivery days? If so, is shipper/receiver required to pay additional?

Are holidays a pain in the ass?

What is standard markup the brokerage firm takes?

What is considered a good week for you personally? In total billed amount or mark up?
rafdogg2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 10:35 PM   #54
botulism
grinder
 
botulism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Making Moves....
Posts: 580
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

How are the port issues currently effecting business?
botulism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2014, 05:07 AM   #55
RickySteve
banned
 
RickySteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: End Suffrage
Posts: 655
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

What would be the rock-bottom price for RORO service from USA to Europe?
RickySteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2014, 10:22 AM   #56
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafdogg2000 View Post
Any horror story loads?

Unfortunately yeah. I'm fine with all sorts of problems, and they happen all the time, I only really start to be emotionally affected when I can't find out what's going on.

Do you offer LTL gaurenteed delivery days? If so, is shipper/receiver required to pay additional?

Yes and yes. LTL is pretty much a commodity so all I can do for anyone is get them a good rate.

Are holidays a pain in the ass?

YES. The odds of getting stuck trying to cover a load at 4:30 in the afternoon when all that's left is the disorganized and rando russian extortionists is very high. I tend to ask for a lot of money to cover freight the same week as major holidays. Depends on the lane though.

What is standard markup the brokerage firm takes?

The industry standard gross profit margin is ~15.7%. My brokerage is averaging around 12%. There really isn't a standard margin. I have loads where I make 25% and loads where I lose money. My brokerage is coming down hard on people for margins trying to get the company margins up.

What is considered a good week for you personally? In total billed amount or mark up?

I (and everyone else in the industry) only really care about brokerage not total sales. I consider any week where I generate >10k in brokerage to be a pretty good week. I'm semi happy at any number >6k honestly. I expect to do ~500k in brokerage next year.

Last edited by BoredSocial; 12-27-2014 at 10:32 AM.
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2014, 10:31 AM   #57
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickySteve View Post
What would be the rock-bottom price for RORO service from USA to Europe?
I have no idea lol. That's not really something I've ever dealt with. We almost entirely do domestic+canada where I work.
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2014, 10:33 AM   #58
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by botulism View Post
How are the port issues currently effecting business?
It caused a lot of chaos this year for sure. One of my customers was moving a bunch of truckloads of slinkies from Long Beach to Detroit and port issues caused a bunch of those loads to get cancelled.
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2014, 03:36 AM   #59
TimRed
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 404
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Is it cheaper to go from Asia to California and then overland by truck/ train to the east coast or to go from Asia directly to east coast by ship? Assuming fcl.
TimRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2014, 04:16 AM   #60
TimRed
banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 404
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

One of the wholesalers i buy from does not have its own trucking. Every delivery I get comes from a trucking company with whom my only contact with was a thirty second phone call before the first order where they told me the price. No contract or anything and they always try to get me to pay in cash. $200/pallet in a freezer truck for a 1100 mile trip. since then I havd done like 15 pallet with no problems.

Is this standard? A good price? Should I be worried about insurance or a screw up on their part?

Trucking seems like a shady industry.
TimRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2014, 04:45 AM   #61
Your Mom
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: grinding out a mediocre living
Posts: 12,943
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

why isn't there (or is there?) an eBay for this?
Your Mom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2014, 02:31 PM   #62
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimRed View Post
Is it cheaper to go from Asia to California and then overland by truck/ train to the east coast or to go from Asia directly to east coast by ship? Assuming fcl.
Ship to the West coast and then truck east. That COULD change if the chinese build another canal or if Long Beach get's even slightly ****tier. Long Beach needs to drastically improve service levels or importers will start looking hard at other options.
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2014, 02:39 PM   #63
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimRed View Post
One of the wholesalers i buy from does not have its own trucking. Every delivery I get comes from a trucking company with whom my only contact with was a thirty second phone call before the first order where they told me the price. No contract or anything and they always try to get me to pay in cash. $200/pallet in a freezer truck for a 1100 mile trip. since then I havd done like 15 pallet with no problems.

Is this standard? A good price? Should I be worried about insurance or a screw up on their part?

Trucking seems like a shady industry.
'Pay me in cash up front' tells me that there is zero chance they ever compensate you if there's a screw up.

Reefer LTL (what you're doing) is a strange business honestly. Because of the extra dimension (temperature, cargo incompatibility) added to the usual formulations for LTL (dimensions, density) the larger Reefer LTL carriers have decided to take themselves straight to retail. They reject the (complex) price calculations of the dry LTL carriers and offer very similar rates to all comers. As a result freight brokerages aren't much of a value when dealing with Reefer LTL.

Because of what's in the last post I rarely deal with Reefer LTL. I will note that refrigerated LTL rates are such that if the shipment takes up >25% of the trucks available capacity it's cheaper to just do it TL with a light load. My turkey customers routinely get an entire truck to move loads as light as 6000 lbs (out of a 42-44,000 lb capacity) although that could also be because of product incompatibility. (There are a lot of USDA regs about what can travel on the same truck as meat)

I know that I talk to a specific Reefer LTL carrier a lot (I generally call them first when I have freight coming back from Florida or South Georgia to Chicago) they told me that they were charging ~1.2k for 5 pallets weighing ~5,000 lbs on the way down.

Cliffs: The price is good, you're taking additional risk for that price break, it might be worth it depending on the risk/reward. Definitely do not ship seafood like this.

EDIT: Or berries/any other sensitive produce, or meat valued >1.50/lb, or anything that could be resold super easily. And to answer your question about the business being shady... Yes? It's a highly illiquid market that is VERY fragmented and contains a wide variety of different actors. It's shady factor definitely changes as you move around the country as well. Some areas (like the entire ****ing west coast) are crawling with the scummiest people you'll ever do business with.

Last edited by BoredSocial; 12-28-2014 at 02:46 PM.
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2014, 02:42 PM   #64
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Your Mom View Post
why isn't there (or is there?) an eBay for this?
That's basically all I stare at all day. DAT and Internet Truckstop are basically always active on my work computer.

Remember that there are about 15 variables on every load, and those variables change depending on the product. Making new relationships has a transaction cost (competent employees time) that is seriously not negligible.
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2015, 08:57 PM   #65
NYC_Jon
grinder
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 649
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Thanks for this thread. I'm not involved in shipping whatsoever, but this is extremely interesting and this sort of learning is why I read BFI.
NYC_Jon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2015, 10:08 PM   #66
Big TR
grinder
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 612
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

My company has 7 locations. We transfer from our main hub in Nashville to these 6 locations each night, typically with full trailer loads of product. The drivers turn around and come back to Nashville with fairly empty trucks.

How best do we work with a broker to look at back haul opportunities for delivery within our service area?
Big TR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2015, 04:05 PM   #67
rafdogg2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
rafdogg2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: run it back
Posts: 6,178
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

I may have already asked this but missed the answer.

You set up a load for me a few times and I notice the same carrier backing into the dock. I start to book directly through the carrier. Will you find out about this and how do you react? Stop dealing with shipper? Start marking up your quotes more with shipper? Stop using carrier? Give carrier less loads? No reaction, this is standard?
rafdogg2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2015, 11:25 AM   #68
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big TR View Post
My company has 7 locations. We transfer from our main hub in Nashville to these 6 locations each night, typically with full trailer loads of product. The drivers turn around and come back to Nashville with fairly empty trucks.

How best do we work with a broker to look at back haul opportunities for delivery within our service area?
In this situation you want to stay flexible and use whichever broker has the lane you need. For your front haul you guys have the ideal situation for running your own trucks or setting up contracts with asset based guys at relatively low year round rates.

With a few exceptions (we have some dedicated lanes for larger customers... in fact scoring a dedicated lane is every brokers dream because ideally he could find a carrier that could ALWAYS do it, this is as close to a residual as a freight broker will ever get.) most lanes brokers have aren't lanes like yours that go every night from your facility to the same place.

You need DAT or Internet Truckstop... Eventually you'll build some relationships with specific brokers for specific lanes where they call you and tell you a few days in advance when they're getting a specific lane. I have a few carriers on a few lanes that I get repeatedly (Jasper IN-> Laredo TX I run 3-4x a week on average... But there are some weeks where I run 0 and some weeks where I run 10x) where I literally call them as soon as I have an inkling I might even get that lane.
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2015, 11:31 AM   #69
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafdogg2000 View Post
I may have already asked this but missed the answer.

You set up a load for me a few times and I notice the same carrier backing into the dock. I start to book directly through the carrier. Will you find out about this and how do you react? Stop dealing with shipper? Start marking up your quotes more with shipper? Stop using carrier? Give carrier less loads? No reaction, this is standard?
1) the carrier probably won't go along with that... Because if I find out I can legitimately sue him for 30% of his gross sales with you directly. (It's in the contract he signed with me) Whether my management decides that this is the right option to go with is debatable: but the carrier getting blacklisted by my company is not. We have a lot more freight than just your lane, and if I'm using the same carrier on your lanes I'm probably using him a lot of other places.

2) I probably won't do business with you again... Which sucks because decent freight brokers actually are hard to come by.

This definitely happens, but it's never happened to me. It's important to recognize that my main customer I'll do 500+ loads with this year. I'll use probably at least 200 different carriers to cover those loads... So ruining that relationship is something that my customer cares about about as much as I do.

In my mind a customer that does something like this is telling me something very important: that they don't give a **** about working with me and see their relationship with my industry in very adversarial terms. I don't have time to deal with that **** at all so I'd be borderline grateful to find out about it early on.

EDIT: I'll probably find out because the carrier will probably tell me. I may never find out, but if this is a standard practice for you I'll eventually find out. I rarely use the same carrier so often that it would start to make sense for a customer to 'cut out the middle man'.
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2015, 10:29 PM   #70
rafdogg2000
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
rafdogg2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: run it back
Posts: 6,178
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Thanks for the thorough responses.

Do you work with entire US or specific to a region?nismit common for brokers to cover entire US or do they mainly have a certain region they cover?
rafdogg2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 11:07 AM   #71
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafdogg2000 View Post
Thanks for the thorough responses.

Do you work with entire US or specific to a region?nismit common for brokers to cover entire US or do they mainly have a certain region they cover?
In this business information is everything. Typically a brokerage has a lot of information about stuff they actually do, and very little about stuff they do not.

Information is so important that I can fairly easily subdivide it into types:

1) Carrier information. Which carriers are good and which are bad? What lanes do they like to run? Are they always in a certain place every week looking to go somewhere?

2) Price information. What is the market rate from a to b? How deep is the market for a to b at that market price?

3) Operational information. What idiosyncrasies are there about this type of freight? This can range from relatively simple (watermelons) to incredibly complicated (overdimensional and overweight loads that have about 50 moving parts).

Information determines whether or not a brokerage can execute something well. If they charge too much they'll never get a chance to do the lane, if they charge to little they'll be out of business if they keep doing it...

One of the big upsides to working at a bigger shop is that you have access to information. You have more carriers in your database, you have more price data about lanes from a to b (because your coworkers have done it), and there are lots of people you can ask about the operational stuff. I'm not particularly limited by Geography where I work (except Canada. Our info about Canada is limited so we don't do it as much) because we run 10k+ loads per year... And those loads go a lot of places, which means that I have a reasonably good idea of what things should cost going from anywhere in the us to somewhere else.

My big limitations are risk (loads that are likely to result in a claim+ expensive) and the need to make enough money to justify the time commitment.
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 02:24 AM   #72
BrianTheMick2
Need a ride?
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 13,910
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredSocial View Post
...the need to make enough money to justify the time commitment.
You just stated the most important concept in business.
BrianTheMick2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 10:07 PM   #73
johnzimbo
adept
 
johnzimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: A dumpster behind Jack in the Box
Posts: 1,199
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Couple LTL questions-

My company uses an outside company to arrange most of the outbound freight and they use three carriers about 98% of the time and one of maybe seven other LTL carriers the other 2%. When I ask them why they don't "spread the love" more they say that some of our other locations have told them not to use certain carriers, but I think they either get kickbacks from certain carriers or use carriers they like for some unknown reason

They are likely not using the cheapest carrier on many occasions, and I would like to be able to check this. I know they use a website or software program that gives them rates for a bunch of carriers. Would that be available to me and would it be free? Any idea what they use?

Secondly, regarding freight claims. I have been newly assigned to handle these and it seems the carriers are often scumbags. Ex- twice they have destroyed a case we shipped out fully crated (they ran a forklift into one case, and set some heavy item on top of the other one) and once they offered 25% as reimbursement and once they denied the claim because when the case came back to us with the crate smashed and falling off we took pictures as is, then removed the crating to see how badly damaged the case was and took pictures of the damaged case. They denied the claim because "when we came an inspected the case, the original crating was not available for inspection" even though we had sent them pictures before we removed the crating. Seems like a chicken sh** attempt to avoid reimbursing us for the destruction their employees caused. Agree?
johnzimbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2015, 10:43 PM   #74
BoredSocial
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 4,192
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnzimbo View Post
Couple LTL questions-

My company uses an outside company to arrange most of the outbound freight and they use three carriers about 98% of the time and one of maybe seven other LTL carriers the other 2%. When I ask them why they don't "spread the love" more they say that some of our other locations have told them not to use certain carriers, but I think they either get kickbacks from certain carriers or use carriers they like for some unknown reason

They are likely not using the cheapest carrier on many occasions, and I would like to be able to check this. I know they use a website or software program that gives them rates for a bunch of carriers. Would that be available to me and would it be free? Any idea what they use?

Secondly, regarding freight claims. I have been newly assigned to handle these and it seems the carriers are often scumbags. Ex- twice they have destroyed a case we shipped out fully crated (they ran a forklift into one case, and set some heavy item on top of the other one) and once they offered 25% as reimbursement and once they denied the claim because when the case came back to us with the crate smashed and falling off we took pictures as is, then removed the crating to see how badly damaged the case was and took pictures of the damaged case. They denied the claim because "when we came an inspected the case, the original crating was not available for inspection" even though we had sent them pictures before we removed the crating. Seems like a chicken sh** attempt to avoid reimbursing us for the destruction their employees caused. Agree?
The best method of keeping LTL carriers honest is to have a few and get them all to quote you regularly. More likely than not it'll STILL be the same 3 companies trucks pulling up, but at least you'll know you aren't grossly overpaying. PM me if you would like a fairly competitive LTL quote to compare against your current provider (/self promotion I couldn't help it)

LTL Carriers are large companies that exist in an insanely competitive environment that is all about cost. Most of them have pretty terrible service and are miserable to deal with. In this way they greatly remind me of airlines.

EDIT: I should let you know right now that service levels can vary wildly from one location to another with different carriers. This means that it's important to try out all of the LTL carriers and develop your own preferences. It's ok to ask your LTL provider to give you a list of LTL carriers with their rates and time frames and then select who you want to use.

Last edited by BoredSocial; 01-10-2015 at 10:51 PM.
BoredSocial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2015, 02:22 PM   #75
jimbobwe00
veteran
 
jimbobwe00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,509
Re: AMA about the logistics industry or working at a freight brokerage

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredSocial View Post
I was in college before. After graduation I wanted a job that fit my skills as much as possible (while rewarding me for success directly with clearly defined metrics).
Hey man. I am in college now, and I want this ^ too. I am a dual major in Economics & Supply Chain and I definitely like my SC degree more. I think the type of work is good for my skill set (problem-solving, logical analysis, risk management, avoiding crises, handling crises) though these things tend to lend themselves to a 9-5, pre-set salary job. I worked in Logistics Finance for a large foods distributor for a 6-month coop and while I did really well in my position I found the lifestyle (same hours, same paycheck, many relatively similar/repetitive analyses) kind of boring. How were you able to find something that rewards you for hard/good work and has some variability/unpredictability in pay?
jimbobwe00 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online