27 years old never had a job or school (online poker) - Page 4

auralex14 · 08-08-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliBobby

I was just stating a fact. If you are 18 and going to spend a lot of tax payer money on school it is much less risky than if you are 27 and gonna spend a lot of your own money on school. The Occupy Wall Street crowd does not seem very remorseful when they talk about how their debts should be wiped out.

Misinterpreted your post, sorry, thought you meant you'd bail on your loans, but that's not what you meant

College isn't that expensive, esp if you qualify for some type of merit based scholarship--

Anyway, the main point is build a network beyond 2+2 and that will land you a job faster than anything else

Gonso · 08-08-2012, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNGplayer24

well the problem is office hours are still time you can't be doing other things....people glorify salary jobs saying "oh I make 100k/yr" but if you break down their hourly rate, that might only come out to 30/hr....I do agree with you on 1 hour of poker not equaling 1 hour of working an office job - definitely two different animals.

But likewise, a 9-5 office job can carry perks that go beyond just the salary. There's the stability of steady paycheck, retirement/unemployment/medical/various other benefits, more opportunity to socialize, maybe a little more variety, plus the additional skills and experience you gain OJT that can lead to further career advancement.

In the last case, I'm not saying poker players can't advance because obviously some do. Just that with everything that's happened since 2006 it seems harder to improve relative to the field and increase their earnings. Even compared to a very weak US job market the online poker field seems very unstable right now. And hard to predict even 10 years out.

Obviously if you're banking $100k+ a year at poker it's harder to pitch the benefits of an education or risking your savings with a business venture. That's a lot of money for someone in their 20s and I definitely get that.

But looking longer-term, I think people like Vanessa Selbst and Taylor Caby will find themselves in much a much better position than those just content to keep grinding and hoping online poker holds up for them indefinitely.

NajdorfDefense · 08-08-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliBobby

At 27 I feel like I am coming to a point where if I need to go back to school I should do it now and the longer I wait the harder it will be and the older I will be when I get out. But at the same time I am just like an 18 year old with no idea what he wants to do or what any of these degrees and jobs... Furthermore, I have a wife and child and not as much flexibility or room for screw ups/bad choices.

Most people who get their MBA don't know what they want to do next, only that they want to change from their prior 'job,' just like you.

I think many schools would still be interested in you, most MBA programs def value 'life experience' over 2-3 years of 'work experience' which for some of my classmates was summarizing loan applications for the small local bank or writing ad copy for the family furniture biz. Plenty of marrieds in school also.

Assuming you can make it obvious you pwn at math, you should be a desired candidate at many schools, if not Wharton/MIT/Chicago. And you will get a great network of friends and colleagues wherever you end up.

MAC programs take 12-15 mos or so, and they are always hiring acc'ts. And cost accounting is at least somewhat interesting [involves problem solving, strategy], unlike fin acc't. Tax can be interesting and very very lucrative. Most MACs from decent schools have 6-7 offers upon graduation.

1oh1 · 08-08-2012, 05:27 PM

maybe buy a dry cleaning business.

just dont run a crooked cleaners.

bef99hwk · 08-08-2012, 05:28 PM

College isn't all that bad if you actually have a plan. Me, like others, took a break from school for poker, messed up the school route, graduated in 8 years from undergrad, and got a pitiful job. My job isn't horrible...I had no experience outside of the normal college jobs and make 38k. 40 hr workweeks. However, I know this isn't enough for my lifestyle both previously from poker and my personality. I would suggest figuring out what you "like" to do in math, then go from there. Actuary was listed, and this is a decently tough route+takes quite a few years...8ish? I don't know what you mean by liking math...that could mean you like being a math teacher, want to be in a corporation, etc. I'm pretty lost on what I want to do, but I wouldn't stick with poker. Friend is also having the same problem, but he saves a lot, tried trading, looking for new business ideas, etc. I wouldn't go waste money on schooling without getting some goals to get somewhere (and remember it takes time).

Playing poker forever sounds boring as **** if you want a family and such. Not to mention, the edges you described are accurate. Dont' rush it, but don't wait forever either. pick a path and go until you figure something else out.

Acemanhattan · 08-08-2012, 05:30 PM

If you don't know where to invest your money to get a good return, you probably ought to invest it in accumulating a valuable skill set and you are in a good spot to do so.

Possible scenario: Decent State School probably wont cost much more than $35,000 for four years; 2 years masters program after that if you wanted to, maybe another $40,000?. Most of that you could finance through loans if you didn't want to eat into your $400k. If you did pay for it out of pocket you're still looking at $325K to live on for 6 years while you develop marketable skills; not a lifestyles of the rich and famous budget, but depending on where you live, def enough to be comfortable. That's if your wife doesn't work at all and you didn't play 10 hours of poker a week or something for extra cash. In addition to that you'll get to spend much of the first 6 years of your child's life with the ability to be an attentive & involved father & husband; this sounds like a pretty fortunate spot to be in for all parties involved.

Also you say you are good at mathematics, if you were to leverage your mathematics skills by pursue a degree or two in Engineering/Economics/Computer Science/Finance you would almost certainly make a much greater than $50k starting salary out of school.

You made over $400k playing poker so you're likely a talented person, sounds like you're just in a transitional "I don't know what to do with my life" spot.

Gonso · 08-08-2012, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unquestionably

School is something you attend once you already have a job in your desired career field and are looking to advance your career. For instance, it would be pointless to go after an MBA thinking that'll land you a good job...

Not always possible. There are a lot of desired career fields that require a degree before you'd even be considered for entry-level work. As far as graduate degrees, you can do those later, though some prefer to knock them out before entering the workforce full-time, settling down with kids, etc. Plus it gives you a few more years to try and maximize your return. Another argument for knocking it all out early is some employers' aversion to hiring someone figuring to have serious school obligations that will go on a while.

In any event [OP], being an intelligent 27-year-old with $400k (and the discipline to save it) seems like a pretty good problem to be stuck with. That's an incredible amount of opportunity, hopefully you find a way to capitalize on it whatever you decide to do.

Sirasoni · 08-08-2012, 08:37 PM

Sorry to derail thread but have been following it from the beginning as I'm in a similar boat (24, no degree, ex-poker msnler, have a decent amount of $ but no long-term plans). My parents, who have largely been ok with my poker route while I was making money are noticing it's not going well for me post-bf, and my mom (ex title-insurance VP, now real estate broker) suggests I should get into real estate brokering, including getting my license etc. Her agency deals with commercial real estate and has 9-figure properties in Los Angeles, etc.

I never had interest in the field but I figured I would give it a fair shot, anyone with any general knowledge to spare on the industry and type of work required? I'm not much of a salesman, but am quite tech and marketing savvy, and have always been academically decent but not great.

p2 dog, p2 · 08-09-2012, 12:05 AM

Good thread, my scenario is much like yours. If u have 400k liquid cash tho it's no time for panic. I was pry once close to that number but a nice house and nice wedding rings and all the other stuff has me down to my retirement monies, which is still a good chunk for a 26 year old. Gonna keep up with the thread. I have been thinking of school lately but gonna also be grinding for now. I have been studying more to, 5 years ago, life was the easiest thing ever. Ppl were gift wrapping final tables for me. Things can't be easy tho, unless ur one in a milly, it's gonna take hard work to truly succeed unless ur setting the bar way low. Think about ur Ambitions, and then go for them. It's easy to be a thinker, I'm guilty of it to, but tomorrow be a doer. Just go get it.

Klakteuh · 08-09-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_publius

What exactly is good money to you?

I used to check PTR and it was pretty clear that *almost* every regs winrates are slowly going down the sh*tter, that at least for MSNL/HSNL the turnover of regs is huge every 6 months, and very few people made 100K in a year. (though it's possible that they are on many networks, etc)
.

Lots of MSNL grinders make 100k+, probably playing less than 40hr/week.

Also fi you checked PTR and stakes, well most people play 2 or more stakes and or 2 or more networks. Also, sites like Ipoker have 30% or so hands missing. And this year at least the regs turnover at 2/4 and 3/6 on Stars has been quite small imo.

There's still a lot of money to be made in poker, and things are actually moving in an OK direction at the moment.

For OP, I would say keep grinding poker to save up money and then have the option to start a business if you want.

Gonso · 08-10-2012, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klakteuh

For OP, I would say keep grinding poker to save up money and then have the option to start a business if you want.

Meh. A guy with zero work experience and zero education beyond high school starting up a $500k-type business seems like a bad idea. That's not much different than telling a novice poker player to turn pro just because he has a lot of money. A nice savings might get the doors open but there's a little more to a business than throwing a bunch of cash at it and hoping it gives you a nice return.

iGolf · 08-12-2012, 10:33 PM

I'm in a similar boat; except I'm probably more in tune with today's state of poker but I have no family, younger and less money saved. I'm self studying finance and trading to hopefully transfer and finish my ba in either economics or business then figure out plans afterwards. Good luck op

Somnius · 08-13-2012, 12:01 AM

Just wanted to add, OP and other younger members in similar situations, if you haven't already, call academic advisors at undergrad and grad schools/programs you're considering and explain your situation. Some are just waiting to go home, others will offer some great advice as well as some motivation.

I'm pretty happy with poker still and think regulation should improve things quite a bit, but there are many interesting and somewhat "in-line" options if you want to transition out.

Quick example, and it's an online curriculum to boot.
http://www.scs.northwestern.edu/grad/mspa/

GL

dknightx · 08-13-2012, 06:03 AM

If you are smart and motivated, you can easily get a CS degree from a top 20 school in 2-2.5 years (for example, and a school with 4 teaching quarters/year, you can finish all your pre-reqs ins 5-6 quarters, and all your major requirements in another 4-5).

As already mentioned in this thread, there is always demand for CS jobs, and in the major markets, most recent grads are getting at least 80k+ with equity starting salaries. For reference, I started at a startup making $65k, and after staying there for 5 years (2 years too long), I am now at a big software company making $250k a year. And no, I don't work 80 hr/wk, I work about 45, and its a very relaxing job compared to 12 tabling 8 hours straight.

To be honest, I never understood why a bunch of highly intelligent and motivated people chose to mortgage their future by dropping out of college and pursuing online poker. Just seemed like an extremely short sighted decision and its not like you didn't have enough free time while in college to both be a full time student and play poker on the side.

1aday · 08-13-2012, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliBobby

All i can say is that I scored in the top 1% or whatever of the SAT math tests when I took them a zillion years ago and have been a successful online poker player.

My online poker win rate like everyone else just keeps getting smaller and we are getting to a point where there is just no money in it, or the money you get is not worth the trouble. Countries keep leaving the player pool and all the pros move to remain in the pool. There are too many resources and just simply not enough fish.

1. I can go back to college, it costs a fortune and when you get out there are a zillion other people with the same degree all fighting over the same limited jobs. When I think about having to apply for a job I want to puke.
Also, it makes much more sense to go to college by borrowing money this way if it turns out you are a loser you don't have to repay that money and you are freerolling. If you actually have assets, you will be forced to pay for college.

If I go back to college I know that I must try to pick something math related that I can find a good job with after 4 years. I just can't see going back to school for 8 years so I can get my first job at 35 and finally start earning money again. However, I really don't know if I am even smart enough to make it through one of the more difficult math degrees at this point.

2. I have what most would consider a lot of personal savings but if I take shots at starting businesses, I could see my savings dwindle and really be up ****'s creek without a paddle. Plus I have zero business experience and the economy is super terrible. There is nowhere safe to invest money. No interest. Stock market is fixed. Housing is wtf who knows? The gov probably gonna destroy the currency or keep invading new countries.

So wtf is my move? I just keep grinding poker but I know at this trajectory it is going to end or come to a point where I am playing a zillion tables just to make less than a school teacher. Right now I am just treading water, continuing with poker and thinking of good ways to hustle and I can hustle and do this and that but none of it will be long term stuff and none of it will likely put me where I have always imagined myself.

Get a degree in a field that gives you options. Business degrees and engineering degrees are always good... as for the cost it can be expensive but remember you don't need to do it @ a university on campus. These days many online degrees are worth the same rate and it's going to continue to be that way. Remember you don't need to do it in your home country too.

Finland, Norway and other northern European countries offer free degree courses in English if you live there, and you can get by with a random part time job, or you could continue to play poker online, or play live cash for your income.

As for online I'd recommend the University of South Africa. www.unisa.ac.za

They are accredited and as it is Africa, it is much much much cheaper. I'm doing a masters on there for 1/5th of the cost of an equivalent MA degree from a distance degree ran by a UK university.

You do all work at home and submit it online, email your professors, and once a year they have examinations all over the world at examination centres http://www.unisa.ac.za/default.asp?C...ontentID=17068

I have no idea where you are from, but there are options, just need to get out of your comfort zone and make it happen.