Copy pasted from the topic if I was TD for a day..

"If payouts were a bit steeper and final table was guaranteed a million last year:


1st $10,000,000
2nd$5,147,911 -> $6M - 852089
3rd$3,807,753 -> $4M - 192247
4th$2,849,763 -> $3M -150237
5th$2,143,794 -> 2.25 -106206
6th$1,622,471 -> 1.75 -127529
7th$1,236,084 -> 1,5 -235584
8th$947,172 -> 1.25 -302828
9th$730,725 -> 1 -269275
10th-12th$565,193 - > 600,000 -104421
13th-15th$441,940 -> $450,000 -24180
16th-18th$347,521 -> $375,000 -82437
19th-27th$286,900 -> $300,000 -117900
28th-36th$230,487 - > $250,000 -175617
37th-45th$186,388 -> $200,000 -122508
46th-54th$152,025 -> $150,000 +18225
55th-63rd$124,447 -> 125,000 -4977
64th-72nd$103,025 -> 100,000 +27,225
73rd-81st$85,812 -> 85,000 +7308
82nd-90th$72,369 - >70,000 +21,321
91st-99th$61,313 - > 60,000 +11,817
100th-162nd$52,141 -> 50,000 +134,883
163rd-225th$44,728 - > 40,000 +$297,864
226th-288th$38,634 - > 35,000 + 228942
289th-351st $33,734 -> 30,000 +235242
352nd-414th $29,400 -> $25,000 +$277,200
415th-477th $25,756 - > $20000 +$362,628
478th-549th $22,678 -> $17,500, +$372,816
550th-621st $20,228 -> $15,000 +$376,416
622nd-693rd $18,406 - > $12,500 +$425232

Total difference = $70,916 (in the negative (i.e. rio's pocket)).

Edit: this final table payout is roughly 49% of the prize pool."



Second edit, If first had to be less than 10 million, then we can reduce 1st , 2nd and 3rd to make the gap between 10th and 9th not so large. Also can increase the prize support from cashing from 12.5k to 13.5k (most likely).

I don't understand this whole "paying out 1,000 players" gimmick. If cashing was such a big deal to these people, why not just sell your seat.. Amateurs play this event to win the big prizes.

I have done extensive work on tournament payouts. I met with Jack Eiffel years ago and suggested that flatter payouts and paying more places would be good for the game and that was what the vast majority of players would prefer. It is very encouraging that the main event this year has taken that message to heart.

I still think there is room to take even more from 1st. The 5.2 million range for 1st is still plenty. I was pitching to pay 12.5% of the field not 15%, and making the min cash be $20,000 not $15,000. But I am ok with 15% paid and min cash $15,000 as a compromise.

Paying top 9 a million each is a good selling point and I am ok with that. Keep in mind it takes away from a pure computer based payout.

I made a payout for the 2010 Main event at the time with top 9 getting 1 million or more and 12.5% of field being paid, and $20,000 as min cash. Here is how that looked:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/juddst...57648198186953

Note only 6 spots pay less and 909 pay more. Same may think $5.2 million to 1st is too little, but keep in mind 40% of that money goes to taxes vs only 10% of it if paid at the bottom. The tax savings alone adds over $2,200 back into the prize pool on average for each cashing player with the flatter payouts.

I show the ratios in the link. A proper computer payout would have the ratios of each pay jump decrease at each level. Due to having pay the top 9 all 1 million or more, the ratio between 7th-8th and 9th-10th rise. The WSOP still chooses to have the jump from 1st to 2nd be a ratio of 1.681. This is too much. They should let the computer figure the jump and flatten the pay to 1st in all events by about 25%. WAY TOO much is still going to 1st place. The bracelet alone is worth taking a paycut.

RedOak

How are this tournaments even beatable if the rake is so high? Like in some countries you pay 40% tax above 36k which seems absurd. How can you ever make a profit doing these?

If you lose 40% to taxes you probably don't profit from playing in this tournament.

When its all said and done I think the jump from 10th to 9th will still be much larger than 9th to 8th but not by as much, this new announcement I believe will up the numbers in the main event, with more players in the fold then those payouts from 10 down to 100 or so will be the biggest gainers.

This is outstanding job by the WSOP to give players what they want and bring back more first time players and their friends while also making the final table as prestigious as it should be, to be honest isn't the final table bubble at the WSOP the most important bubble in any tournament, I think so.

I get back from my overseas mission July 3rd I was going to just head down to florida on the 8th and grind there for the next 6 months, well after reading this press release i have instead decided to book a room one way flight and rental car for July 6th, so that I can play the main on the 7th. I played the main twice before but i really have a GREAT feeling that this will be great for player turnout!

Kudos to the WSOP, way to incorporate two great ideas into one.

Paying more spots in tournies is almost always bad....with the higher ràke on the preliminary events the professional players don't need to be squeezed any more.

Paying more spots is fine for the main event but it's bad if it trickles down to the smaller events. Any long term profitability that anyone has from tournaments comes from making top 3s. I think many people would quit playing if the did not feel it could be profitable long term.

I totally agree with everything you said, regular tournaments need to stick to the 10% threshold, and yes the Main Event is it's own beast. But you know what they will pay 1000, Im thinking it will be less than 15% when its all said and done and the main will have close to 7500 players, I really do think that whatever the number is it will grow next year as well, we need something to really kickstart the main on the trajectory it was at a decade ago.

these changes for the MAIN only can get this tournament to 8k runners in the future that would mean 1,000 paid, N9 millionaires, 10million to first...
This could all happen if and when we break 8k runners, especially 8.5k

Agree on those points, though the way Caesars did this was bass ackwards...have the survey and make the changes after the November Nine, not after guaranteeing $10M again for first in December and then reneging on that.

I see good growth in numbers this year as more players chase one of those 1,000 payout spots. I also hate that big final table bubble...agree with Red Oak that they should take more away from first, but considering they just guaranteed $10M a few weeks ago I can't see them dropping it below $8M (this year, anyway.)

I think the main appeal of the main event (or any tournament) is the fantasy of winning it and the money that entails. For most people, winning the main event means they never have to work again.

I think it's only once people are actually in a tournament that the fantasy of winning outright fades and the reality that you're playing for a ton of money begins to set in. It's at this point that the people underrolled (almost everyone in the main event) start thinking about how nice a mincash would be. This is why in so many tournaments people start discussing deals at the final table.

But who cares? Once reality sets in, they're already in the tournament and bound by the prize structure that already exists.

It is my opinion that the lure of the big first place will lure more people into initially registering for the tournament than paying more places will, because they are driven by the fantasy of winning it.

Paying 1,000? Wow it's going to be really hard to collect for the bubble.

In the US income tax is not like rake. You can deduct all losses for the year. If you're a pro who makes $200k per year you can deduct the buyin thus it only costs $6000 to enter for 60% of the prize pool. If you're an amature who doesn't play much you're screwed, but you don't play enough to see the long run anyway so maybe you'll get lucky and win big.

I think in this case 1,000 > $10 million. Obviously, Caesars agrees. But only time, and attendance, will tell who is right.

We shouldn't be paying the bubble anyways.

Mark Newhouse approves of the 9th place pay jump

You can deduct full losses.

This makes it easier for Ronnie Bardah to make it six cashes in a row.

so beatin a crowd of 10k+ players in live poker is not bracelet worthy but any rich dood can buy into a high roller and luckbox a 150man field for a bracelet?

Isn't that rake a welfare donation?

Waiting for full schedule

Was committed for January. Little surprised we haven't seen yet.

They always say Jan, but it never turns up til Feb.
This is standard.

http://www.wsop.com/2015/2015-wsop-schedule.pdf full schedule is up! 40 min levels for the colossus! Well done WSOP!!!!!

http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/

Colosssus 40 minute levels first day

And there is no Big O, again! If you're a Big O fan tweet at the WSOp today and tell them you want them to add a $1,00 event! They spread more Big O cash in the WSOP cash room than they do PLO8! https://twitter.com/wsop

Continue discussion here:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...tions-1508125/