Without the influx of new money, the only "winner" in tournament poker is and will be, the "house drop" (whether the drop is from tournaments or time/rake in the side games).

It is just a matter of time until the house and government taxes gets all the dough.

The WPT will continue its down trend, as tournament poker players can not fade taxes, the house drop, and the large chunks of money being redistributed to the few winners, involved in tournament poker, without a influx of new money.

It is just a matter of time before the poker tournament money pool dries up. The WPT is an example.

This happened to tournament poker in the eighties. Anyone else remember all the poker events we "use to have" that disappeared (along with the poker rooms disappearing)

While the poker ocean of players is large now, the downtrend in poker is obvious. Check your stats!

Tournament Poker Players should organize and play for sponsors monies, not their own. (like the PGA Tour)

Name another televised event, where the players put up their own money and do not share in the advertising or TV rights monies.

Poker Tournament Players playing in unsponsored or events without added monies are suckers!

High variation will keep most tournament poker players busted, not to mention the "teams" (many of who are "backed" by internet sites, that are playing in these poker tournament events) winning the large monies and redistributing the monies amongst themselves.

Granted, there are more poker tournament events today, which equates to more poker players being distributed between different regions on the planet, anyone can put on a poker tournament.

Tournament Poker Players need to organize! It is up to them. The house will always try to offer the tournament, until the tournament is not cost effective to operate.

Now, in today's world, tournament players can get "raked" closer to home, rather than coming across the "pond" or country. Too many tournaments, is why the WPT is shrinking.

Poker Tournament Players playing in unsponsored events, and not having sponsors and TV monies added to the prize pool are suckers! (even Johnny Chan mentions this in the articles written by Sexton)

The WPT needs to offer low buy in "satellites" regionally, to attract players, much like the World Series of Poker has done to attract new monies.

Is the WPT on its way out? Would low buy in "super satellite" events, held regionally, help save the WPT? Is the WPT worth saving?

Sound advise. I believe the EPT is continuing to expand, as are the APT and SAPT.

Doyle mentions the APPT had disappointing turnout..

I think what pokerstars needs to do is start organizing pub leagues across the countries.. get poker coming up from a grassroots level.

Not to clutter this thread with facts, but the APPT did just fine, exceeding expectations.

The APT is a different animal and didn't reach it's guarantee. Pretty sure that's what Doyle was talking about because as far as I know he left before the APPT main event started.

Need to get Guy Laliberte (sp?) somehow involved with the tourneys. He is singlehandedly funding the online cash games.

Was tried a couple of years back with the PPT sponsored as part of the WPT events. Failed on TV.

The problem with all TV tournament poker is that it is everyone has to get busted out for there to be a winner. This takes hours, even with the blinds moving up. A far more compelling format for the WPT would be to work as a knockout tournament until the final 6 (or 9) and then run a timed tournament for about 2-3 hours. Chips would be even at the start of the timed portion for each player. You have a "action clock" and give players a couple of time outs. Place is decided by how many chips someone has at the end of the time. As the clock runs out, people could decide to make "hail mary" all ins, or build a lead and run out the clock by folding. Blinds are fixed for this phase and everyone is given 200 BB to start.

This is done at Foxwoods for each event (steps start around $60), and from watching the broadcasts, it is done at other casinos that host WPT events as well.

coinflips + huge rake + travel costs = suicide
-> tournaments will not survive longterm

/thread

The "action" and "growth" in the televised poker world has simply shifted from the WPT to tours overseas.

The EPT is at its peak. EPT Season 4 overshot the German-speaking market so the EPT had to adjust by LOWERING the buy-in at several stops (particularly in Germany) for Season 5.

The APT (which does NOT have major online poker backing) will likely struggle in the face of competition against the APPT, which is backed by PokerStars.net.

Even the APPT has to cut back on its TV budget in the face of obstacles imposed by hostile government owned or government-licensed gambling monopolies across Asia. As media protection laws remain in place in Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, etc. to keep poker tournaments OFF television networks, the APPT's local player base will grow very slowly. For now, the APPT's player base at stops in Asia (excluding Auckland and Sydney) is very "tourist heavy".

The most exciting regional development in the TV poker world in 2008-2009 is the emergence of Latin America, where governments do NOT impose restrictions on televised poker on cable/satellite sports channels (ESPN Latin America, FOX Sports Latin America) and men's lifestyle channels (FX Latin America, particularly FX Brasil).

Season 2 of the PokerStars.net LAPT (2008-2009) will mark the start of the Latin American poker "gold rush", with Season 3 (2009-2010) being the peak of the TV-driven poker phenomenon in Latin America.

4 out of my 6 active clients speak Spanish fluently, including 2007 WSOP Main Event Champion Xao "Jerry" Yang, who had to learn how to speak Spanish fluently because his former job as a social worker required him to communicate with Spanish-speaking children and parents in Southern California. I have already suggested to Jerry that he should play LAPT season 2 events (if he can get his visa applications approved).

Note that I expect the LAPT to have TV coverage in the U.S., but in Spanish ONLY.

Oliver Tse

BTW, PGA tour prize pool is a combo of sponsors and entry fees. On all levels of tournament play there ares still entries that are paid by the golfers.

bad idea. now the big stack is sitting with an enormous amount of chips, and me and another dude collude to double me up so we can chop first place money along with whatever place he gets. first plus fourth usually adds up to more than second plus third. anything that even resembles the poker bowl fiasco should be avoided.

TV shows make the the bulk of their income from commercial spots, dropping the Travel Channel (i have) for GSN (i don't have) is a big mistake IMO. I never missed a WPT show until now.
It looks like they are not gonna survive unless they have satellites online available to US players or double the buy in. Start putting the branches and twigs over yourself Mike.

You yanks need to sort out all this tax melarky. Takes the piss in my opinion.

TV poker has had it's day- it either ends up like IFBB bodybuilding (not on tv anymore) or like World's Strongest Man (on at 2:00 AM a few times per year).

Venice10... that "folding with a big chip lead to run out the time" sure sounds like exciting TV.

i'd be disapointed to see the wpt go. watching the wpt was what got me into poker in the first place. i honestly don't think that decreasing field sizes is a bad thing for poker. the smaller fields in the recent wpt events just makes for more name-pro heavy fields, which leads to more interesting final tables for viewers.

i think most of the wpt's problems stem from poor management. if they had been able to have a good tv contract for the ast few years, people wouldn't be worrying about them so much.

i still think the wpt has the right idea about how to televise a tournament. with 2 hours to focus on the final 6 players, we get to know more about each player, and we get to see a wide range of hands, rather than them only showing the all in hands, and missing all the complex smaller hands that make the game interesting to watch.

i do think they should show a little more background for each of the final 6 players though. they seem to have been cutting back on this part in recent seasons. it's what always made the show watchable to me, knowing about the players and having someone to root for.