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Old 09-04-2016, 07:05 AM   #151
OurSurveySays
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Who is the second PLO guy? Ike?
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:05 AM   #152
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....



I HATE PEOPLE THAT LOOK LIKE YOU!!!
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:09 AM   #153
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Ben not only acts but also looks 100% like the kid that got bullied in school because he was so awkward harry potter style... That ben then later took poker serious to prove everyone is no surprise but he still kept being that awkward guy.
Sorry Ben, visit someone that helps you deal with your childhood. Good luck.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:15 AM   #154
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by Hellmuth was right View Post
between this thread and creating polker news it really feels like doug does .........

FYP
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:16 AM   #155
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Who is the second PLO guy? Ike?
[ ] leaving poker.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:17 AM   #156
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by coach999 View Post
Ben not only acts but also looks 100% like the kid that got bullied in school because he was so awkward harry potter style... That ben then later took poker serious to prove everyone is no surprise but he still kept being that awkward guy.
Sorry Ben, visit someone that helps you deal with your childhood. Good luck.
You're a douchbag dude. I wasn't picked on and never picked on anyone but guys like you make me sick. You're just jealous of his net worth so you try and make him feel bad about himself because that is you're only way of getting back at him.

And stop calling recs fish, no wonder everyone hates poker players.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:25 AM   #157
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Angry Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by betterlol View Post
The Galfond reference is dumb on both parts and shouldn't be used in this at all, imo, it just shows similar weakness and unprofessionalism by both of you at/in different times and circumstances.
So true. "I want to keep this between me and Ben". Previously mentions Phil and some other guy for the tourney swapping story. Indirectly putting Phil on blast was ****ed up. Come on, man.

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Rofl @ the re-telling of what Ben said, if any of that is true his ego is hilariously massive
between that and the swapping tourney action and not getting a mark-up, it's quite clear that Ben thinks he's a special flower. Surprised Doug didn't use the word that so clearly describes Ben, narcissist.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:26 AM   #158
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

so much ego ITT
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:27 AM   #159
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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[ ] leaving poker.
Hastings would be the GTO solution from the popcorn selling companies perspectives.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:28 AM   #160
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OurSurveySays View Post
Who is the second PLO guy? Ike?
I suspect it is a guy called Alix Martin.

http://www.runitonce.com/users/alixmartin/bio/

Ben has said he has long term coaching with him and he produced / contributed to various Game Theory software.

Last edited by oracle3001; 09-04-2016 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:34 AM   #161
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

I am offering Ben86 a challange, we`ll put 50k on the side. In case i lose i won`t pay off cause "I asked my mom bro and she told me i can`t get the money sry". The few hours Doug devoted to him are easily $50k, that`s pure theft and nothing else... inb4 he shoots up a school
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:37 AM   #162
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Re: Recent dealings with GPL CEO Alex Dreyfus

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Originally Posted by betterlol View Post
This.

Sure WCG can be somewhat annoying with his "I'm the best" act but it sounds like he was indeed scammed/treated unfairly here. And also, pieces shmieces, this is obviously way bigger than the 70k or whatever you threw at him as compensation.

They said that about Ali too and he.......proved he was,and i do believe that Doug will take on all comers and end up on top,that includes A.I. computer programs as well so perhaps he has got a right to a little ole sickus bragus?

In all honesty, if i was in Dougs spot I would be worse than Hellmuth at skiteing,actually, upon reflection, I wouldn't be as bad as him but I'm sure I wouldn't be shy in extolling my prowess.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:51 AM   #163
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

I know this isn't gonna be a popular opinion in NVG but from now on it would really be best to cut down on the personal stuff from all sides

fun read tho..
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:54 AM   #164
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
This seems like it should be a relatively minor issue, and Doug sounds like a jerk for bringing it up four years later. But that seems like how Doug sounds every time he says anything.

Yet it also appears that Doug is fundamentally right on the merits. They made a deal to trade coaching, with no stipulation from Ben at the beginning, and Ben welched on the deal with no attempt to pay restitution. Selling Doug a piece of action that he ultimately profited on was not part of the deal and occurred before Ben welched, so it basically irrelevant to the argument. If something happened that absolutely foreclosed the possibility of Ben providing the promised coached, Ben should have at least paid Doug a reasonable market rate for the coaching he had already been given in exchange.

Could well be that Doug only calls someone out after giving them time to atone themselves,and gets compelled to vent when he has had enough of Villain pertaining to be 'holier than thou', and him knowing this to be not the case at all.

Viffer calling Alec Torelli out when Alec was on the 'Ethics Comittee' of the Epic Poker Debacle, (AKA Annie Dukes Poker Swansong) has a similar calling out,albeit AT's was for being a scammer for $$$$ Prop bets and more,where Ben is not a dishonest Prop bet scammer but WGC obv feels aggrieved enough to post.

Last edited by Vas Deferens; 09-04-2016 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:07 AM   #165
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by betterlol View Post


The Galfond reference is dumb on both parts and shouldn't be used in this at all, imo, it just shows similar weakness and unprofessionalism by both of you at/in different times and circumstances.
Ya leave our Mesiah out of it
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:10 AM   #166
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

I've had a couple of experiences like this before.

A person is all nicey nicey and then when they get drunk you get to see what they are really thinking.

It's not a very nice experience
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:12 AM   #167
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

ugh I just wrote a long post but accidentally refreshed page via keyboard and lost it. Now the cliffs version because I'm too tilted to re-write.

-I lived at Shangri La during the beginning of this story and interacted with both Ben and Doug. Doug arrived there sometimes in August or Sept 2013, I think.

-Met Ben for first time in Vegas that summer, while I was planning on moving to Vancouver. He was very helpful on all things Vancouver -- told me places to look for apartments, gym to join, where to get my hair cut, gave me CAD for USD and even walked with me to show me where the bank was. He was never anything but pleasant and was especially helpful to me for someone I barely knew.

-the 500/1k cap thing -- who cares? No one is making you play, just sit out. Worst case is you play 2 hands.

-when you talk in the video about being excited about building a relationship with Ben, you do a good job of making it sound like your primary interest is learning how to play PLO, getting good pieces, etc. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but just how it sounds to an outside observer when you talk about it.

-you mention not wanting to involve other people, yet you out things he allegedly said about Galfond/Don? And his secret software? Why? Why did you post this in the first place?

-him backing out of coaching deal is ****ty, but to me it seems careless, not malicious. You probably should have worked out some compensation at the time, but it sounds like you didn't bring that up?

-the night everything blew up just sounds like people were drunk, egos were being flexed, and **** got out of hand. Relatively standard stuff.

-the really personal stuff has no place in this thread/on the internet.

Last edited by Two SHAE; 09-04-2016 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:33 AM   #168
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

@twoshae - You say Ben backing out of the deal seem careless, not malicious? Even though Ben later reveals his hate towards Doug because Doug reminds him of highschool bullies

I think it's more likely to be malicious given this information.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:38 AM   #169
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLCh1pPorn View Post
I know this isn't gonna be a popular opinion in NVG but from now on it would really be best to cut down on the personal stuff from all sides

fun read tho..
Yep. Both parties lost from this ****fest for sure.

1. Ben as the one who didn't honor the coaching agreement for whatever reasons - maybe he thought it wasn't worth it, or maybe he did not like Doug as a person and decided to **** him over, or maybe his partner did veto the whole thing, it doesn't matter in the end. Unacceptable is unacceptable.

2. Doug for making this public at this particular time and in the way he did:

The timing, several years after the incident, coincides with Doug's new public persona/caster/gossip commentator status which is probably giving him the confidence that people will not turn on him now the way they probably would have a couple of years ago.

He also did it in a distinctively spiteful and vindictive manner, complete with personal offenses and even involving innocent 3rd parties like Galfond, whose name he didn't hesitate to publicly drag into the mud with the obvious hope that everyone will turn on Ben because Galfond is currently the white knight of online poker.

Bad decisions all around. Negativity is bad for you, people.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:38 AM   #170
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by african princee View Post
@twoshae - You say Ben backing out of the deal seem careless, not malicious? Even though Ben later reveals his hate towards Doug because Doug reminds him of highschool bullies

I think it's more likely to be malicious given this information.
Ben should have asked his partner before getting coaching from Doug. Assuming Ben had mentioned needing partner's approval, Doug should have waited until he had that for sure before giving coaching. Both parties did something wrong in this scenario.

When I say it doesn't seem malicious, I meant that I don't think Ben intended to get as much as he could out of Doug as far as HUNL strategy and then back out. I think he just assumed his partner would say yes and then was surprised when he didn't, and was left handcuffed.

It's kind of like when you're in the bathroom laying down some serious wolf bait and you assume there is an extra roll of toilet paper under the sink, but there's not. Usually there is, but you didn't know that your little brother ran in there that morning and took it out. There's just nothing you can really do at that point. You're at the mercy of the universe.

The main thing I agree with Doug on is waiting in line for a bar in the cold/rain. I definitely would not have waited. I would have went to the front of the line, and offered the doorman money to let me in right away. This has literally never not worked. Girlfriend being present surely improves your equity.

Last edited by Two SHAE; 09-04-2016 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:44 AM   #171
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by WCGRider View Post
I also do think that after discussing strategy in cap and then getting someones insights, to then sit them in that game type is unethical. This also isn't 100 bb HUNL, this is cap HUNL (Which I have never claimed to even be near one of the best in).
I cannot understand why for the life of me. You choose if you want his action or not, so how does it harm you in any way?

For an action to be unethical there has to exist a potential for negative consequences. In this case, there isn't, unless you are worried about getting your ego checked.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:47 AM   #172
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by african princee View Post
Ben later reveals his hate towards Doug because Doug reminds him of highschool bullies

I think it's more likely to be malicious given this information.
This isn't 'information' but Doug's side of the story that may or may not be true.

I don't really understand doug's reaction to Ben86 sitting him at cap. You had the option to play him knowing the coaching you've given him. Ben86 didn't try to MA vs you or anything shady like that. Is Ben86 not allowed to ever sit u at cap if you've given him some coaching on it?
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:49 AM   #173
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

plo dream machine confirmed. any more on that, mr. ihatepplwholooklikeu?
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:50 AM   #174
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

If they decide to take it further than hugging it out, same sex marriage is available in Nevada.

Just saying
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:55 AM   #175
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Re: WCGRider / Ben86 dispute....

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Originally Posted by cilderr View Post
plo dream machine confirmed. any more on that, mr. ihatepplwholooklikeu?
Ask Papi, he has referenced it but then dodged it. People apparently knows it exists but there is too much $$$ involved that some could get gat for the tell-all.

There is little integrity in a selfish, ego based game/sport. Just keep your name cleaner than most and you have a good rep.

I honestly think the heat is getting to everyone.... NVG is thriving! Good for entertainment, terrible for the game.

Gl all
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