I find it hard to believe if Sauce had won 80k that ben would be ok with calling it a wash. Most people looking at the chat log would feel that ben had sauce and berri had trueteller. If it went to arbitration he would feel hard done by getting anything less than the 40k.

Ben should owe Berri whatever he would have expected to be paid by berri had sauce won.

Ben is a sociopath. i bet he really is benny

Doug sells coaching, so whether or not he is the best at hunl is relevant and anyone involved in getting coaching from him would surely want to know that he thought that, whether they agreed or not. It's also just a huge accomplishment to be the best at something, so it's expected that someone who has reason to believe they are the best would want to share that with their friends.

Actually, this clears up Berri's intentions from the get go and I'm not sure how Ben agreed that this is correct. Berri very CLEARLY thought he had 50% of the action on Sauce's side of the crossbook. Ben should have said, "No Berri, if you lose you don't pay any rake at all and if you win, you pay 100% of it, because you know, WINNER PAYS RAKE."

Joey Ingram podcast blowing up, Phil Galfond opening poker site, twitch poker booming, youtube poker booming, Doug drama queen booming, people posting having 5+ bb/100 on z500, markets in USA slowly opening up again, hopefully also India and China..

Am I delusional or is poker being ressurected slowly ang getting attention again, from its previous direction into abbys of death.

Only an american would say that "I'm richer than you" is a bigger insult than "I'm better than you".

And WCG is acting like a petty vindictive woman.

Funny funny funny.

What do you want us to say? you asked if they are the same, we told you they are not, other people have told you they are not. You seem to be associating being a better poker player with always having more wealth which obviously isn't the case. You're inferring Y from a statement about X but they are separate issues.

There are regs playing nowadays that are almost certainly better players than you were X years ago when you made your millions, they will almost certainly not make as much money in these games as you did back then. You are the wealthier poker player, does that mean you're also better than them?

That's before we even get in to the context of what was said. Doug said he was better than everyone else and Ben said that he was richer than doug.

Stating that you are the best at X is a brag about your ability. Stating that you are wealthier than a specific individual in response to said brag is merely meant to demean.

What? I guess then someone made a crossbook with Trueteller that he didn't know about and then he "ran good" and won the crossbook and he should be able to collect his 20K?

what sort of an agreement/contract prevents someone from discussing strategy?

this whole "dispute" is pretty stupid imo.

Mark Vos made 2,5 million in one year. He was a great moneyearner, but I dont think anyone would say his playing ability was above everyone elses. Guy played 20bb poker in ringgames when peoples cutoff open was in the mid 30´s and button open was in the high 60´s. Coupled with way to big opens considering how wide they opened. Pretty damn easy to profit on that as a ratholing shortstacker.

No because no one actually made a bet with Trueteller.

Ben got served. Doug ftw.

One thing that really stands out to me about this whole situation goes back to something Ben said on one of his Joeingram podcasts. Joe was asking Ben how much he would charge for coaching and Ben said it would be extremely difficult to come up with a number because so much is going to be learned within the first hour of the coaching. Since Ben received coaching from Doug and did not give him coaching in return after initially agreeing to, I think it's fair to say that Ben stole a certain amount of equity from Doug in doing so. It's probably impossible to say how much the equity stolen was worth, but since both players play the highest stakes in poker it's fair to assume it was a lot of real money.

You completely misunderstood, perhaps I was unclear.

I wasn't saying that they're equivalent statements, I'm saying they have a very similar impact on the person it is directed towards, given the context. (especially when the brag is said over and over again)

Think it's pretty ridic how gangbanged Ben is getting in this thread, it should be more even IMO.

If Doug posted:
-me and Ben had deal to exchange NL for PLO coaching
-I gave him NL coaching, he did not give me PLO coaching
-I didn't receive any other compensation and feel slighted

He'd have come off a lot better and I'd have never posted anything. All the other stuff is just really immature, and makes it look like the purpose of the post was revenge/character assassination. So I felt obligated to post about my positive experiences with Ben. Also find it extremely unlikely that Doug had no idea about Ben's NDA, because I knew about it and had MUCH less interaction with Ben.

i think its always a big red flag when someone offers to have cole south arbitrate and the other person says no and suggests a friend instead.

i can't think of a single reason not to use cole as an arbitrator and the only reason not to agree to having him do it is if you know ur in the wrong and need a biased/friendly person to have any hope of winning.

cole is one of the smartest most respected players there is no logical reason to not agree to using him, would be like if someone suggested using galfond and other person refused.

thats the most shady part of the whole story imo, and i think its absurd to suggest that if sauce had won 80K ben wouldn't have tried to collect extremely aggressively.

corrected

Right and Berri never actually made a bet that he won. We're going to go in circles. It should be a wash and Ben handled it poorly.

I like you and everything, subscribed to your twitch even but you can't really say calling him a psychopath and a scumbag is business related.

Seems to me he responded without attacks to your first callout but after you called him names you can't really expect him to not escalate the personal ****.

It might've been a pretty huge escalation on his part and from what i've gathered he's not the most socially calibrated guy so this would've been somewhat expected but can you really say you haven't provoked him?

hahaha so true

(edit: obviously not true, but it's def not something any euro would say )

Haha I like it ... and yeh the premise is sound. I dont think however that 2p2 is a similar environment to walkabout creek.
I mean you can already see the photoshops and the sociopath/psycopath/serial killer accusations flooding in.

The way I see it, Ben saw Doug as a "bully (people who look like you)" for no reason and obviously went some way to making Doug fit this preconception that he had (as evidenced by the significance he put on Doug not meeting him in the bar with the long Q) Doug may have all the typical "cool guy" traits but it is hard to see him as a bully.

Until now that is and even though Ben provoked this reaction and in some way wanted Doug to react this way, all this has achieved is a reaffiramtion of Bens beleif that "people like Doug" **** him and make him look bad in front of everyone.

I understand Doug didnt have any intention to bring this into the personal domain and I dont know that, if It was me, I would have had the presence of mind to not be sucked into it aswell. I just think it will go a long way for both Doug and Ben, if Doug can do all he can not to be the bully Ben so badly wants him to be.

I say all this and really I don't think Doug has done anything a rational person wouldnt have done. I realise its hard to remain objective when someones comes at you like Ben did him.. but I feel like its a relationship that can be salvaged through the right lense. By now though neither probably want that.

mo money, mo problems

Ben's handling of the Berri situation is reprehensible

I think that the main issue is that Doug should be compensated for the coaching that he gave Ben. Even though Ben's friend supposedly didn't agree with the PL coaching, Ben should compensate Doug equally in some way. The personal stuff and drama is unnecessary, and even if one person brings it up first, I don't think the right thing to do is to bring up more of it. Just focus on the main issue at hand, and try to not create a wildfire that destroys everything in its path.

I mean, to me it's pretty obvious that Berri/Ben bet should be a wash, but the way Ben handled it seems really bad, just agree to any arbiter, most reasonable people would agree here.

My guess is that Ben (who, judging by this thread, clearly has some self-esteem issues) thought that Berri was trying to scam him by plugging in his friends as judges, which is why he started dodging. Low self-esteem is often coupled with social paranoia.

Self awareness much?