New thread created by R*R

This discussion began to take place in another thread and was becoming a distracting derailment. By popular demand I created this thread and moved the posts here. Ben86 made the following quoted comment in this thread http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...eyfus-1627115/ and then the Ben86 and WCGRider discussion began.


What about agreeing on nl for plo coaching, getting some nl coaching, then backing out on the plo coaching because it's not convenient for you.

That's way more legitimate.

BANG BANG

Lol Doug firing shots at Ben... Who thought this thread could have gotten better.


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Hmm,sounds like someone owes some legitimacy!?

Oh cmon, I told you I would try and that I may not be able to, and it turned out that I couldn't from previous informating protecting agreements. I made you a bunch of money and apologized profusely that I couldn't get it done. Don't start this **** and if you can't help yourself how about a fair representation? And if you want to air out stuff that should be kept between us we could go a little further but it doesn't belong here.

That is not what happened and we both know it.

Also, I tried to have this conversation with you 2 years ago. But you ignored a very well thought out message I sent you detailing the events that happened and instead responded a day later with "I can't deal with this". Didn't hear back from you a single time since then.

Oh wait, I did hear back from you! A year later when you sat me at 500/1k cap.

What kind of psychopath behaves like that, I teach you the baseline for my view into No Limit, talk to you about a bunch of concepts, and then you try to go after me at the highest stakes on the internet 9 months later.

Ben you are a scumbag and many people know it. You have a lot of friends that are truly great people (Don, Jakoon, Galfond, etc) but it is absolutely disgusting to me that you let on that you are a nice guy with how horrible of a person you truly are.

You're welcome in advance everybody. Don't attempt if you're tired or not on your A game. "Informating protecting agreements".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informating

I lost it.

Some absolute OGs in this thread. And I'm not talking about SageDonkey.

Alright I guess we're doing it. Here's what happened, this was about 4 years ago. Doug moves to my building in Van and we hangout a couple times and talk about swapping NL and PLO coaching. I am interested, I think it's a good idea. Doug coaches me first, I think about 4 sessions and half of that focused on a hu match. I sell him a piece and we do really well. I tell him I have to talk to my partner in PLO (who is on his way out of poker) before we can talk PLO. The guy I did all of my work with. I am confident that since my partner is leaving poker and we have done extremely well together that there is no way sharing with Doug will be a problem, and I'm thinking he will get pieces of the action so this is just positive for everyone. My partner surprises me and says no. I have to respect it, so I apologize to Doug and say I can't do it. I still did let him sweat me a few times and we talked a little about PLO, but nothing great. I admit he got shorted, and it was not my intention. I sincerely thought it would be fine and once my partner said no I had no options.

We are fine after this. Doug doesn't bring up having an issue with it, I think he made like 70k and understood my intentions and what happened. Then we go out drinking one night, it's late and we're wasted. Doug starts giving his #1 in the world speech and I tell him I don't agree, his sample is too small, etc. We argue for a while and he eventually breaks down and get's really upset. We talk it out until about 5AM in his room, hug each other, and we're cool. I wake up the next morning to an essay on Skype about why we cannot be friends anymore. Given that I already didn't like being around Doug very much, I thought ok fine we aren't friends anymore and left it at that. We had another deal at this time which he unilaterally closed with absolutely no right to do so, but I didn't say anything because being done with Doug was agreeable.

A year later I sit him at CAPNL because I'm a pro poker player and I think I can beat him. He sits out. Then in Vegas we are both playing the 100k at Bellagio and he walks up to me and goes "so sitting me at the ole 500/1k eh?" I said yeah, and then he said something that I can't remember along the lines of "that's kind of ****ty". (Doug and I never talked CAPNL strat). I suggest we talk and he says "no I'm good". So again I'm just content to have no Doug relationship. Apparently he held a grudge.

I don't think anyone in the entire HS community other than you thinks those things about me and you're way out of line talking like that. Please tell me who these people are. Tell me what horrible things I've done. I've never cheated or scammed anyone. I've had business relationships and done 6-7 figure transactions and balances with most of the nosebleed community and never had a problem with anyone (other than you).

There is quite a long story behind this from both of us.

I am also far from claiming I behaved perfectly, I can see how this thread is going and people have this way of conveniently forgetting their errors that they made.

I made 2 mistakes in the way I handled business with Ben.

My first mistake was I gave him a piece of a game when I had to make a decision that he did not want. We had just agreed to a deal and it was outside of it, but I didn't want him to think I was writing him out of action.

It turns out he did not want the piece and I should not have made that decision for him (However as many high stakes players know, when someone sits you and you have to decide, it puts you in a tough situation.)

Second, there was a session where I did not give Ben a piece where he was entitled to a piece. We had a prior deal that included he should of had the action, and before the session I told him he did not have the piece when he had every right to it. He realized my mistake and brought it to my attention, and we corrected the error. (Funny enough this meant he owed me some money but the point remains I was in the wrong here.)

But comparing that to the way I was treated by Ben, is just absurd. With regards to both our business and personal relationships, he showed a disrespect to me I have never seen from anyone.

Brad Booth? Obviously a thief, who knows if he really meant it or not, but I don't hate him.

Joshua Tyler? Ok yeah actually I take this back, I hate at least two people.

Jason Mercier? I legitimately think Jason is a nice guy and have no issue with him whatsoever.

The entire "bad reg" thing spiraled out of control and it turned into me vs him. I think he is a good person and has accomplished many great things in his career. By the way the "bad reg" label was only because I had him labeled that color for HU, not for MTT's at all. He is obviously top 5-10% of the field in any larger field MTT.

But Ben Tollerene is my enemy, make no mistake. The way that I was treated, was beyond unacceptable. The story of what happened that night is the most absurd thing that ever happened to me, and if Ben wants to deny his guilt here I will have no choice but to tell it.

This can't be real.

The only reason I watch WCG's poker vlog is cause he's a big drama queen.

Evidence is above.

The next Polkernews should be fun....

Seems like we are witnessing part of the the poker implosion ITT.

Even Alex has popcorn out at this point , can we get a split thread ???

JFC. Ben/Doug both of you should just stop posting. You are both embarrassing yourselves and within a few days you will both agree. All that is going to happen by continuing to post is people of this forum will think worse of you guys in varying degrees.
One of you should step up and post PM sent and quash this. You guys are both absolutely elite players and to go on like this by extension is an embarrassment to the game of poker. You're welcome.

Settle it like men!

Ben vs. Doug in the CUBE!!!!

500k HU and Alex D holds the $$$

Do it

hu4rollz , 2 plo, 2 nlh

lfg

Just settle this with a 20k hand challenge at 200/400

:/

I ****ING LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS COMPLETELY ******ED INDUSTRY

IN!