View: Staking Sites/PTP Violate Sites TOS and Encourage Collusion - Page 2 - Poker News

Paul Rogers · 02-09-2010, 04:09 PM

tl;dr. Colluding is the last thing people do on stakes.

Illuminasty · 02-09-2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firaldo87

this seems like its well thought out and and concisely written, with many excellent and challenging points.

But on closer inspection, it would appear that OP is just dribbling words onto a page.

(Yes i play on there/no i dont collude cos i want all the monies pls)

Listen I just want fairness. If the end result is that PTP has to change the methods of payments they accept it's probably better for their business in the long term anyway. It would for sure make it more sellable. They could switch to a subscription method possibly.

Comtempo · 02-09-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Rogers

tl;dr. Colluding is the last thing people do on stakes.

About a year ago, I was 4 handed at a final table with three players from PTP on stakes and after I refused a deal was 1,000,000% softplayed into 3rd place. After review, Stars said it wasn't that far out of the ordinary in a situation where 1 player solely did not want to chop, but agreed that the corresponding sweat thread on the site was a little troubling, the players involved were warned.

cubbies4life · 02-09-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminasty

I got banned from PTP so now i'm trying to find a way to get back at them

fyp

cubbies4life · 02-09-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comtempo

About a year ago, I was 4 handed at a final table with three players from PTP on stakes and after I refused a deal was 1,000,000% softplayed into 3rd place. After review, Stars said it wasn't that far out of the ordinary in a situation where 1 player solely did not want to chop, but agreed that the corresponding sweat thread on the site was a little troubling, the players involved were warned.

prove it

Dr_Zoidberg · 02-09-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminasty

Listen I just want fairness. If the end result is that PTP has to change the methods of payments they accept it's probably better for their business in the long term anyway. It would for sure make it more sellable. They could switch to a subscription method possibly.

wtf does this have to do with collusion?

LetMeLive · 02-09-2010, 05:29 PM

don't they still have the same incentive to move up no matter who they eliminate?

Dr_Zoidberg · 02-09-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminasty

I know this might be an unpopular topic but I think it's important that it get discussed. I was a member of the major staking site. This site basically forced me to open a Full Tilt Poker account to remain a member. They also banned me for not wanting to do it and questioning it. However minor they have tainted my poker account because my screen name shows up in search engines for being banned. This causes me to have to explain the situation to people and PTP refuses to delete the record of my account from their site.

tough ****

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminasty

This same site allows and promotes practices that are part of their culture like "army" stakes that can and probably do result in soft play and outright collusion. An army stake is when a staker decides to put a bunch of members into the same tournament. The problem I see with this is that having awareness of the other players running stakes would make you play different against them. Even in other tournaments the fact that poker screen names are so openly displayed must result in at least some soft play. On a site such as 2plus2 that problem would never really happen. You might know the players but your interests are not really mutual. Staking sites in a lot of cases blur the line to almost having a team.

ignoring the fact that this entire statement is fundamentally wrong, as far as the bold goes:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...inutes-578399/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...-lotto-447221/

Quote:

Another thing I think is wrong is that the site uses a Poker account to run their business. The payneverbeg account is listed all over the site as a form of payment. Plus I know for a fact that more than one person must have access to the account because the entire website was sold. The old payment account was to my knowledge identical.

what does this have to do with anything? you think stars isn't somehow aware of this?

Quote:

Even though it won't make me popular I think it's important to discuss what the actual line is and if these staking sites are promoting "teams". Or if you think that Stars should allow everyone to be able to use the very convenient transfer service to run a business. I would be happy if I could because it's very convenient.

you're bitter you were banned and are just grasping at straws. there is no validity to your statements at all

BBKPoker · 02-09-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminasty

Ok let me help.

1. PTP and other sites violate Sections 5.2 and 5.3 of Stars TOS. They violate section 5.2 by allowing multiple users of a poker account. They violate section 5.3 by using their poker account for a purpose that it wasn't intended for, in this case running a business. They also violate 5.3 because they receive transfers in a manner that is against the law in Stars licensing jurisdiction.

2. Some of the types of stakes that they have allowed for years like "Army" stakes can/have and probably do result in soft play by people getting the stakes. The reason is simple if I am part of a group running a stake for the same person I might not get another stake if I eliminate one of the stakes horses. By eliminating one of his other horses I decrease his total chances of locking up a larger share of the prize money by the group sharing different spots to max out cash received.

1.) lol wut? How is backing someone having multiple users on one account? It sounds like your issue here would be with backing in general, but because you are pissed at PTP for w/e reason you have "legitimate" concerns. Nothing you posted in OP indicates soft play or collusion as you are alleging.

2.) If frogs had wings they MIGHT not bump their asses when they land. If you weren't making a lot of serious allegations without any kind of concrete evidence other than wild hypotheticals people MIGHT take you seriously. MIGHT they? MIGHTY!

bulls_horn · 02-09-2010, 05:44 PM

OP, enlighten us please on how these "army" stakes work and what is expected of you.

Lets say you and I are two randoms that get staked into a tourney via this site. We've no prior history together and don't know each other other than the fact we both got a stake from the same source.
* Is there any incentive for you if I win? What I'm saying is, if you cash do you get any bonus above and beyond your stake split for the other "horses" cashing as well?
* Is there any specified penalty for playing hard against another horse? In other words, if you put me all in and bust me out, will there be any consequence to you?
* Somebody mentioned a "sweat thread". Is this on the staker's site? Have you seen any collusion (sharing hole cards, underhanded deals) on any of these threads?

Pay no mind to the short "Lol no" answers. They pop up anytime any even suggests that there's less-than-honest practices in online poker ("Don't talk about that!" "It's bad for poker!" "It'll scare the fish!" lol). Notice they just shoot you down without bothering to answer your concerns.

Woodworth · 02-09-2010, 05:53 PM

I play on PTP stakes and if I'm in a stake with 25 other players staked into the same tournament I don't give a **** who I have to get chips from but I'm going to do my best to win. It's purely competition and I'm in it to win it.

BBKPoker · 02-09-2010, 05:57 PM

Pretty sure all Bax's horses soft play each other using OP's logic.

TheTender31 · 02-09-2010, 05:58 PM

lolthread...butthurtaments

when I see a PTP'er at the table I just make a mental note that they're probably competent (like I do for every other player I stumble across that leads me to believe they are); I definitely don't play any softer towards them, in fact, it's probably the oppposite. And in hands they're involved w/ that I'm not I'm completely neutral to the outcome; I obviously want them to do well but, at the same time, if they bust, it's one less good player I have to worry about. It's poker. I worry about myself first and everyone else...never.

viper31573 · 02-09-2010, 06:07 PM

i dont know who you are, but when i search Illuminasty on ptp, i get nothing, which tells me you must have something to hide by joining this site under an alias

TheDudeAbides. · 02-09-2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper31573

i dont know who you are, but when i search Illuminasty on ptp, i get nothing, which tells me you must have something to hide by joining this site under an alias

well that's just because you're an idiot.

not only is illuminasty a registered member, he's not even banned

http://forum.parttimepoker.com/members/illuminasty.html