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View: A simple idea to stop endless tanking in tournaments/or action tracking View: A simple idea to stop endless tanking in tournaments/or action tracking

03-17-2015 , 03:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormmis
I watch players reactions preflop until it is one or two away from me, peak at my cards, then go back to watching players. That way I see everyone's pre-flop reactions and no one sees mine.
This might also go viral.
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03-17-2015 , 03:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poofinger
This might also go viral.
Explain? Are you implying you don't get info off of fish who like to put on acting shows? If you spend hours at a table with a rec player and can't get a read off of that person maybe you should just stick with ipoker seeing as that is the only real benefit to live play.

Now go make of Timex for saying he relies on reads quite a bit in live.
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03-17-2015 , 03:45 AM
Title possibly Kesslers best work yet, amazing, wp
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03-17-2015 , 04:18 AM
Stay in bed and take in plenty of liquids Allen
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03-17-2015 , 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian
big +1

HATE HATE HATE hollywooding, it's not the international chess finals. fold call raise.

how about a clock like they have for speed chess. you get 5 total minutes of action on you for the whole tournament, and if you run out of time, you're removed by force.
THIS
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03-17-2015 , 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by what_a_drama
allen, i find it incredibly strange that you are bragging about this idea of yours having 100 retweets and 200 likes, and that little danny two shoes and RIP-doyle like it. congratulations, buddy.

personally i dont like this as you are now potentially punishing a player who makes a correct decision. say player A has 87s on a A Q T 9 6 board. he faces a river check raise against a good, aggressive opponent, one who he has never played with before but knows is likely capable of check raising with air on the river. he is understandably baffled by the raise, and so he needs a few minutes to think it over. he thinks for maybe 3 minutes, and ends up folding. player B has the nuts with KJ, but obviously doesnt have to show because player A folded. however, not only does he win the pot, but he now gets to see player A's cards and knows he is capable of making a big fold. he gets information for free all because player A needed an extra few minutes to think over a tough decision, one which was ultimately correct. how is this fair to player A? i too hate excessive tanking, but i dont think this is the right way to go about fixing the problem.
if player a takes 3 god damb minutes to fold here he deserves a kick in the nuts anyway.3 minutes is an absurdly long time on any hand and you picked a second nuts hand when most of this tanking is on bs trivial decisions anyway. people need to act faster plain and simple.i'm not gonna feel bad for the guy having to show 87s here.

im not saying it's the best or most effective idea anyway. tournament poker needs a shot clock. a very short one.
i watched some of the streaming final table. for about half an hour. holy **** was that ****ing boring.make the game as boring as possible and you lose fish.
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03-17-2015 , 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by discgolfing
Players who are complaining about tanking are failing to see the big picture.
Poker isn't some regulated professional sports league, and it should never be. The entire poker economy is dependent on recreational players. And for the game to survive in the long run, it's also dependent on new players. Without them, the game will die off.

I remember when I was a new player playing live for the first time, I took what many would consider to be an unreasonable amount of time to make my decisions. I was nervous, uncomfortable, and not automated to the game like I am now. Most of the people I played with, however, did not make a big deal about this. And that was important to me.

ESPN made a big deal about a guy who was intentionally tanking with AA in the last main event. This was very clearly an amateur player who was on the bubble of a pay jump. A pay jump, that to him, must have been pretty life changing money. Let him tank. It's perfectly understandable for him to want to do it. The fact is, we WANT people like him in the poker economy. In that situation he's going to be playing extremely ABC face up poker that any half decent player will be able to exploit.

If we start implementing shot clocks or some other convoluted tanking rules, we risk scaring off the new and the amateur players that are so essential to our game. I really feel that we, as a community, need to be more tolerant of the baggage that these players bring with them. The problems they cause are really not as big of a deal that some people make them out to be.

Not to mention that there are other solutions to these problems as well. If what happened w/ the AA guy was such a serious and potentially widespread problem, the WSOP could just reduce the number of steep pay jumps that occur so deep into the tournament. Problem solved. On the other hand we could also just keep the structure the way it is and accept that what happened was not that big of a deal.

I do realize that there are some more experienced players who intentionally Hollywood every pre-flop decision. I remember this happening at the final table of the PCA a year ago. Now that tactic is pointless, excessive stalling. I would be supportive of implementing some kind of delay of game penalty for that.
this is completely wrong and backwards. amatuers don't take forever constantly. grinders wasting time in tournaments do.excessive stalling makes poker boring as hell and makes amatuers want to do something else.
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03-17-2015 , 07:35 AM
op needs a mirror ?
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03-17-2015 , 08:01 AM
Top retweets of all time:

@RevRunWisdom ... 1,887,529
@mashable .............. 953,257
@OMGFacts ............. 752,682
@BreakingNews ....... 440,682
@TheDailyLove ........ 438,262
@AllenKessler .................100
View: A simple idea to stop endless tanking in tournaments/or action tracking Quote
03-17-2015 , 08:23 AM
Terrible idea that will expose people's big folds unfairly. Just get a shot clock already.
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03-17-2015 , 09:21 AM
mod should move this this isnt BBV, this is a brag
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03-17-2015 , 09:22 AM
+1 to a shot clock. Played with a 10-second clock in <50bb pots last night and it was ****ing fantastic.
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03-17-2015 , 09:39 AM
I saw the thread title (and author), and immediately thought to myself "I bet it hasn't actually gone viral".

I owe myself a cookie.
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03-17-2015 , 10:29 AM
I thought this was a good idea, I tweeted it with no re tweets, I changed my mind.
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03-17-2015 , 10:36 AM
That idea doesn't sound appealing to me.

That said, there should be the possibility to place those super slow players on a shotclock for a specific time or number of hands.

Nobody minds new players taking a little longer while they get adjusted to the game. But there should be done something about players who takes 30 seconds every time to decide what to do with 53o preflop.

You should get all the (reasonable) time you need to decide if you want to call all-in with your pair on the turn or your bluff catcher on the river. But not to make trivial decisions.
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03-17-2015 , 01:16 PM
An actual chainsaw would be even better than a shot-clock.
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03-17-2015 , 01:32 PM
Just out of curiosity chainsaw, how often do you call out the tankers and ask them to speed it up.

My guess is not at all, and now you propose a rule that gives speaking up a competitive advantage.

Hmmmm maybe you could try speaking up first before introducing a rule that will increase angle shooting in the game.
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03-17-2015 , 04:56 PM
Current pros only have themselves to blame for this tanking. 'Balance timing tells' etc that was put in training videos and all sorts of stuff. Half the time everyone knows what they are going to do but are taking time just as to not act too quickly.

Loved it when Dan Colman snapped Negreanu in the one drop with KQ and he did it so fast Negreanu thought he was dead.
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03-17-2015 , 05:10 PM
The only objection I can think of to shot clocks are that people would start to take the full 30 seconds or whatever that they have "the right" to do on every single move.

For tankage I would make the dealer pull out an egg-timer pretty much immediately when someone doesn't move within 5 or 10 seconds. Take it out of the hands of the players tactics and make it not such a big thing that the floor has to be called.
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03-17-2015 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFizzbin2
Just out of curiosity chainsaw, how often do you call out the tankers and ask them to speed it up.

My guess is not at all, and now you propose a rule that gives speaking up a competitive advantage.

Hmmmm maybe you could try speaking up first before introducing a rule that will increase angle shooting in the game.
All players should call the clock more but don't.

Pros and regulars are the worst at tanking and not looking at their cards pre flop. If more people started calling clock it would become routine and just part of the game and people wouldn't feel bad about it. But currently clock is rarely called so no one wants to be that guy.

New viral idea just say!:

"in one minute I'm calling clock cause I came to play cards and your not".
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03-17-2015 , 05:38 PM
only read 2 first pages (10 posts/page) of the thread, but i cant believe that nobody pointed out the one obvious flaw of this idea - due to inability to define "tanking" precisly, people would just snap-call the clock in the very moment of reaching some arbitrary line to get a free look at folded cards. Or, if we try to keep the definiton of tanking informal, people would just claim they are "annoyed" within 2 secs and instacall clock for information
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03-17-2015 , 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tutejszy
only read 2 first pages (10 posts/page) of the thread, but i cant believe that nobody pointed out the one obvious flaw of this idea - due to inability to define "tanking" precisly, people would just snap-call the clock in the very moment of reaching some arbitrary line to get a free look at folded cards. Or, if we try to keep the definiton of tanking informal, people would just claim they are "annoyed" within 2 secs and instacall clock for information


Duh, none of this applies unless dealer and floorperson agree that player has had sufficient time already.
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03-17-2015 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker
Duh, none of this applies unless dealer and floorperson agree that player has had sufficient time already.
ok, so the correct move is to keep asking the dealer "has he had sufficient time already?" from second 1 until he says yes, and then snap-call the clock. Great way to make poker more fun.

also:

Quote:
Recs arent the ones tanking every hand.
are you implying that some actual poker professionals are cutting their winrate on purpose by tanking excessively? Are live pros really that dumb? Anyway, people stupid enough to do that cant be anywhere close to decent at poker, so even if they somehow are winning players, they should be considered along with recreational players.
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03-17-2015 , 06:50 PM
More to the point; why are people so reluctant to call the clock on other players? I call the clock fairly often if I feel that someone isn't close to making a decision and they've had a decent amount of the time. I play online so 98% of my decisions are made up before the action gets to me and if I need a minute or so on a river decision I'll just say "Sorry guys, going to need a minute here". However, if someone is constantly tanking and taking minutes on each street I will just call the clock and tell them it's nothing personal. I've never been confronted about it fwiw.
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03-18-2015 , 03:41 AM
Great idea Allen. Regardless of how it ends up getting refined/tweaked, SOMETHING needs to be done. Thanks for thinking of a creative solution and getting a great discussion going about it. I'm sure we'll see some sort of change implemented by TDs sooner rather than later as a result.
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