Quote:
Originally Posted by worpler
weren't a lot of coaches advertising huge reductions after BF? The market is not self adjusting,despite what capitalistards tell us, it's often very slow and lumbering.
Are there any well known coaches stilll charging huge rates despite not having played much or made much in last 1-2 years?
Yes, when black friday hit the market for students obviously got smaller, and the coaching market did not likely get as small relative to that, so many coaches had to lower prices.
And I'm sure there are always well known players still charging huge rates that are bad/don't play/play badly.
It's not as well documented here on 2p2, but if you look around, you can find plenty of really out of touch former "semi name" live pros with crazy hourly rates on their personal websites.
That's not to say there aren't bad deals else ware, there are bad deals on just about any training site and poker site (including 2p2).
Just like when I go to the store, if I buy my fruit blindly I'm going to get ripped off sometimes. Is it worth it to me to research it? If it's a 60 cent vs 40 cent lemon that I buy once a month, no. If I'm buying fruit for my family each week, yes, I should get an idea of what a rip off price is, because that will add up over time and it's worthwhile to figure it out.
I personally believe it's worth almost everyone's time to research a coach, research a poker room, get references, and be fully comfortable before parting with your money (it's instantly $100s, if not $1000s of dollars, plus all the time you'll spend in addition to that money... seems like a no brainer to me to not blindly buy things or blindly listen to advertising).
Quote:
Originally Posted by super_dave31
Also can this sort of stuff even be coached?
I mean when I was young I thought try hard and anything is possible... Well, it simply isn't true lol
Some people are born to be great at certai things.
Pick any world class sports man. They were born a 98/100 at that sport. Sure coaching may take them to 99/100 but fact of the matter is, they were utterly class without the coaching anyway.
Look at isildur he once took 3k and turned it into 200k in two days. How can you ever teach that? Like if isildur was a coach, what can he possible tell some one from his thought process that will make them as good as him?
But i gess maybe coaching can improve you at the lower levels. For example some one may be a 48/100 and with coaching could become a 62/100 player.
Finally.. The old argument as well about "people weren't as good back then" makes me laugh.
I once got a soccer DVD about Manchester United in te 1960s. As the first thing that struck me by a mile was how different they played. The passing, the speed, the tactics. EVERYTHNG was different to now. And yes those teams would peno ably get destroyed today because the teams have adapted to the change.
However, what I also noticed was the absolute quality of the individual players. Twy were fast, fit, had great passing ability, fantastic touch and control.
I have no doubt, what so ever, that each and every single one of those players could ply soccer today (as a young man). They were all extremely talented. The only difference being that the game is played differently now.
In fact I'd even say thu may even be better than today's players. I the 1960s soccer was played on pitches like marshes, the ball weighed like a brick. Vastly different to today's modern technology. With perfect equipment an pitches.
So I believe the same goes for poker players.
Sure whwn we look back we may say they were all fish. But at the time they were playing the game at the latest tactics. And we're good players at the time.
They still woulda been quality for that time period
To say people like stu ungar wouldn't be good today is just utter BS. Look at phil hellmuth for example. Perfect example right there. He's still crushing 20 years later.would a 20 year old Michael Jordan be **** today as the game has changed so much??
I think you're focusing too much on the top .1%. And even within that area, there are multiples more with major talent that didn't have the work ethic to succeed.
I mean, just the sports you mention, you need so much physicality, so much athleticism, and obviously the bodies these guys work so hard to achieve they are not born with.
But back to the top .1% or so. Here's a list of the 2006 high school basketball rankings -
http://statsheet.com/bhsb/recruiting_class/2006
If you focus on the top 20 or so, yes, almost every name is at least a decent NBA player today, so you can say "see, these people are destined to be good from an early stage."
But look at numbers 20-150. All of a sudden you might have 10 guys in a row that do nothing today in the NBA, then you get to a really good player. There are guys ranked way down the ladder that are making a real impact today.
I think it's the same way with poker, and that meshes well with a lot of things I've noticed in life. There are certain special people, with very advanced skillsets that match certain jobs, that will likely always have major talent unless they get insanely lazy, talent to stay at or near the top of the field. But a lot of guys at the top aren't any different from 10 others that did not make it, other in the fact that they worked a lot harder and more efficiently over the years.
So, while, if you want to talk about the very best basketball player, or the top 10, I'm sure they were born/raised at an early age with an edge that would carry over, but I don't think this is all that widely applicable or relevant.