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-   News, Views, and Gossip (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/)
-   -   VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/view-poker-coaches-rates-should-have-adjusted-difficulty-online-games-1430184/)

Jamerc81 03-29-2014 02:21 PM
VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
But they haven´t, have they?

It seems now the best route to making money in poker is to get a coach, learn to play, and then coach other suckers, because coaching rates are so high.

~Caligula~ 03-29-2014 04:17 PM
Pretty valid point imo.

If 50nl today is as difficult as 400nl in 2009 how is a $200/hr coach worth it anymore?

super_dave31 03-29-2014 04:29 PM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Well of course but that just means your over paying for your product. If the coaches can't coach you to beat the games then your buying a Ford for the price of a Ferrari

Rusemandingo 03-29-2014 05:08 PM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
If it's harder to beat the games shouldnt coaches who are able to teach you to do it charge more since theyre a scarcer resource?

Things are worth what people are willing to pay for it. Not what you want it to be worth or what you wish you could pay for it.

Dr.FatCat 03-29-2014 09:41 PM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
It depends on the coach of course, just as it always has.
Some coaches overcharge and might not be worth it, whereas some, even though they might have high prices, are still worth it.

In the end it comes down to the customers and how willing they are to pay for coaching. Prices will go down if people aren't willing to pay as much.

Marshall28 03-30-2014 12:21 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
I've always thought it's a combination of two things. One, how much does the coach make per hour playing? Two, how quickly will the information the coach be able to provide help to increase your winrate?

I've had coaches I've paid 500/hr for 4 or 5 hours of coaching, then within the first 45 minutes, received enough information that has led me to make >$10,000. This is why a lot of strong players refuse to coach. Most people don't understand how small pieces of information can be extremely valuable and make other players win incredible amounts of money. Or why others think guys who charge a lot of money are ripping people off. The truth is, coaching from top players is worth a ton more than the majority of people are willing to pay.

The way the games have changed don't really matter all that much aside from winrates and hourly's changing.

Marshall28 03-30-2014 12:25 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Caligula~ (Post 42700740)
Pretty valid point imo.

If 50nl today is as difficult as 400nl in 2009 how is a $200/hr coach worth it anymore?
Today, 50nl is more difficult ... but so is 400nl.

hunting4nemo 03-30-2014 12:27 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Caligula~ (Post 42700740)
Pretty valid point imo.

If 50nl today is as difficult as 400nl in 2009 how is a $200/hr coach worth it anymore?
Wat

WCGRider 03-30-2014 12:44 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Said this before, but almost all coaches are under/over paid.

Generally I agree with poker coach rates should have adjusted, good coaching is worth a lot more these days then in the past (The value of bb/100 differential is considerably more important now in terms of increasing income then in years before).

ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S 03-30-2014 03:03 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Why would they lower their rates when they can just post hand samples from 2008 and make ridiculous claims and get people to pay through the roof?

Its a competitive market, so it makes sense to grab as much of the pie as you can while it lasts.

Mason Malmuth 03-30-2014 03:07 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S (Post 42705724)
Why would they lower their rates when they can just post hand samples from 2008 and make ridiculous claims and get people to pay through the roof?

Its a competitive market, so it makes sense to grab as much of the pie as you can while it lasts.
Hi Eskimo:

If it's a competitive market, don't you expect rates to come down in time?

Best wishes,
Mason

Marshall28 03-30-2014 07:21 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCGRider (Post 42705212)
Said this before, but almost all coaches are under/over paid.

Generally I agree with poker coach rates should have adjusted, good coaching is worth a lot more these days then in the past (The value of bb/100 differential is considerably more important now in terms of increasing income then in years before).
ya anybody offering services for anything is either over or underpaid ... but ... i know what u mean in this industry.

anyways ... interested in coaching? offer a number. even if it's ridiculous to most, i might consider.

madison79 03-30-2014 07:46 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S (Post 42705724)
Why would they lower their rates when they can just post hand samples from 2008 and make ridiculous claims and get people to pay through the roof?

Its a competitive market, so it makes sense to grab as much of the pie as you can while it lasts.
That's why I think the person who looks into coaching might want to know the persons winrate in todays games.

HossBonaventureCEO 03-30-2014 09:28 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Its like those house flipping conventions you hear about on the radio. They teach you how to make a ton of money flipping houses for a fee. But if they really knew how to flip houses for a ton of money, then why aren't they doing it themselves instead of teaching you how to do it?

kep 03-30-2014 09:34 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossBonaventureCEO (Post 42707116)
Its like those house flipping conventions you hear about on the radio. They teach you how to make a ton of money flipping houses for a fee. But if they really knew how to flip houses for a ton of money, then why aren't they doing it themselves instead of teaching you how to do it?
Because it's more profitable to teach others to flip houses with non of the risk?

HossBonaventureCEO 03-30-2014 09:38 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kep (Post 42707156)
Because it's more profitable to teach others to flip houses with non of the risk?
Spoken like a true poker "coach".

BeenAWhile 03-30-2014 09:41 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
So people start to realize just now that poker coaching is a major rip off 90% of the time..gj

Awesemo 03-30-2014 10:50 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
It's a lot easier to make money playing poker than teaching it. That's why I'm assuming there aren't a ton of poker coaches that are top players in the games.

BeenAWhile 03-30-2014 10:52 AM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesemo (Post 42707748)
It's a lot easier to make money playing poker than teaching it. That's why I'm assuming there aren't a ton of poker coaches that are top players in the games.
lol yeah right

DougL 03-30-2014 02:04 PM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesemo (Post 42707748)
It's a lot easier to make money playing poker than teaching it. That's why I'm assuming there aren't a ton of poker coaches that are top players in the games.
This is clearly untrue. The value of certain income that requires zero BR versus playing high stakes games? Look at the quality of player that offers coaching sessions, most people who can talk at all have done so in some fashion.

It goes to the second thing that so many people miss in coaching. You have to know poker well enough that you have something to teach and you have to have the ability to teach anything. Sure a sick graph from your coach gives you something to brag about to your friends. "Look at this amazing player who I get to talk to one on one!" Teaching is a skill, and even having a style that you can explain isn't a given. Chasing fame in a coach is an ego thing more than a good way to learn quickly. Actually finding a coach that is a good fit for your needs is work, but bot doing that work is probably why people get little value out of the exercise.

YouthBlood 03-30-2014 02:18 PM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
lol coaches... good for them i guess "only thing immoral is letting a sucker keep his money"

djle2 03-30-2014 02:21 PM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
i tried a known poker coach at 100/hr a while back. after the first 1 hr session. I concluded it was a waste of money

jukofyork 03-30-2014 02:34 PM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossBonaventureCEO (Post 42707116)
Its like those house flipping conventions you hear about on the radio. They teach you how to make a ton of money flipping houses for a fee. But if they really knew how to flip houses for a ton of money, then why aren't they doing it themselves instead of teaching you how to do it?
:D

Juk :D

ShaneG 03-30-2014 02:48 PM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HossBonaventureCEO (Post 42707116)
Its like those house flipping conventions you hear about on the radio. They teach you how to make a ton of money flipping houses for a fee. But if they really knew how to flip houses for a ton of money, then why aren't they doing it themselves instead of teaching you how to do it?
Not everyone wants to play poker full, or even part time. I might be able to make $70/hr mass multi tabling micro/low/mid stakes online, but I'd much prefer to earn half that number teaching others. That way I get to socialise, and not have the mental and physical strain of staring at a screen all day clicking buttons in isolation.

JudgeHoldem1848 03-30-2014 04:22 PM
Re: VIEW: Poker coaches rates should have adjusted with the difficulty of online games
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouthBlood (Post 42709439)
"only thing immoral is letting a sucker keep his money"
Spoken like a true Mormon. Is Utah's proximity to Nevada mere geographical coincidence? Or homogeneous scum found on different ends of the same pond?

Here, I will abolish the need for all coaching forever. We can stop the debate and declare the topic resolved - the correct market price is zero henceforth.

This is the secret, any coach worth his weight in pond scum will acknowledge it's truth

Quote:
Know your range in every spot on every board vs every opponent


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