View: Phil Ivey is no longer the best poker player in the world - Page 5 - Poker News

I remember a few years ago everyone said ben lamb was the best player in the world, how's he been doing in tourneys lately? Welcome to variance-ville. It doesn't matter how good you are there's a ridiculous amount of luck involved in poker, in particular in tournaments with 7,000 players, 6,000 of which all grasp the concept of poker theory and now know that aj, at, kj, kt, jq, <99 are trash in early position. This wasn't the case 15 years ago, the players have absolutely improved.

Did he really brick 300 tourneys in a row or something or did he just essentially retire when he cashed for 4 million? I mean he hasn't cashed in over 3 years in anything

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07-15-2014 , 11:51 PM

#102

LoosenUp

adept

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 833

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIV

The future of poker is mixed games, NL is done. And I for one can't wait.

Amen.

NL... the cancer of poker

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07-16-2014 , 02:54 AM

#103

DontStep

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 290

The future of poker is lower stakes, deepstacked cash games and nl games with rules that cater to fish, ie. must show winning hand etc

There is no way rec players are going to learn 8-games when they just want to have a flutter.

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02-02-2015 , 08:49 AM

#104

khrage

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 370

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokybacon

I personally don't think he's the best poker player in the world anymore. There are a number of guys who've overtaken him in recent years, the likes of Kanu, Trueteller, Ike, WCGRider, Sauce123, jungleman, Galfond etc. and there are many other talented midstakes pros who will probably overtake him in the next few years. I think he'd struggle to beat as low as 2kNL on Stars over a decent sample.

On his Full Tilt account Polarizing, he's down $4.5 million after 140k hands, since December 2012, and Patrik Antonius has overtaken his lifetime online cash game profits if you include all of their accounts. I know swings in high stakes games are huge, but you can't deny that his graph is on a clear downward trend.

Even in tournaments he's fallen behind in relative ability. At last years Main Event, even the amateurs were reading him like a book (remember that hand where Mader folded trip queens vs Ivey's full house?) and his set over set hand that got him knocked out, despite it being a cooler, was played poorly. At the 2013 PCA, he got badly outplayed by Doc Sands in the 52s vs A5s hand and tilt-called off the rest of his stack when he wasn't getting the correct odds.

What do you think? Do you think Ivey is no longer the best poker player in the world?

lol remember reading this thread and guess who won the aussie millions:

http://www.highstakesdb.com/5484-phi...ack-years.aspx

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02-02-2015 , 09:55 AM

#105

NerdSuperfly

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,172

Quote:

Originally Posted by khrage

lol remember reading this thread and guess who won the aussie millions:

http://www.highstakesdb.com/5484-phi...ack-years.aspx

there's no better test, to proof who's the best, than a tournament with 20-ish runners

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02-02-2015 , 11:03 AM

#106

MiRee446

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,720

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerdSuperfly

there's no better test, to proof who's the best, than a tournament with 20-ish runners

He's played 5 of these 250k's and won 3 of them. And these fields aren't too soft. How many does he have to win to earn your approval?

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02-02-2015 , 11:07 AM

#107

Brunolf

adept

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 842

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiRee446

He's played 5 of these 250k's and won 3 of them. And these fields aren't too soft. How many does he have to win to earn your approval?

He only played 4 of them and won 3.

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02-02-2015 , 11:10 AM

#108

MiRee446

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,720

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brunolf

He only played 4 of them and won 3.

My mistake. Ivey only wins 75% of the 250k high rollers he enters what a donk.

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02-02-2015 , 11:31 AM

#109

smokybacon

banned

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,390

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love_the_game

just finished watching the aussie millions 2014 cash game. ivey crushed the game. hes still easily one of the best

Title said 'the best' not 'one of the best'.

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02-02-2015 , 12:01 PM

#110

greatwhite

self-banned

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,506

It's kind of hard to be the best player at every game when you play all the games. Put him in a 10 game mix and he'd be the best player in the game. There's so many good young specialists now in NLHE and PLO it's hard for him to be the best when he doesn't focus exclusively on them. On top of being a great cash game player he's probably the best tournament player in the world. Since he's turned 21 nobody has more bracelets or WPT final tables. If you look at somebody's all around poker game I don't think that anybody else is in the discussion.

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02-02-2015 , 12:09 PM

#111

greatwhite

self-banned

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,506

I wonder if Phil Ivey has adapted to the internet NLHE/PLO like everybody else by analyzing statistics. He used to beat games just by intuition, but there's now a lot of really smart people who've studied the game at a theoretical level. The top pros probably have a better understanding of what's actually GTO than in the past.

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02-02-2015 , 12:39 PM

#112

uradoodooface

banned

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,381

I wouldnt be surprised if he get's coaches and stuff for poker. Didnt he enter into golf gambling with like no skill, then went on some golf retreat and got coached hardcore then came back and crushed? Maybe that was someone else but thought it was him. No reason not to find a coach or at least talk in depth poker with some really talented poker heads.

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02-02-2015 , 12:51 PM

#113

NerdSuperfly

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,172

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiRee446

He's played 5 of these 250k's and won 3 of them. And these fields aren't too soft. How many does he have to win to earn your approval?

he don't need my approval, nor does he need any threads .. i highly doubt, that he even know 2+2 exists .... i'm just saying, that just because he shipped (another) 250k, it's no 'proof' that he is the best.

this is a stupid thread and the bump is even more stupid

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02-02-2015 , 01:18 PM

#114

Soepgroente

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 4,083

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiRee446

He's played 5 of these 250k's and won 3 of them. And these fields aren't too soft. How many does he have to win to earn your approval?

It's a nice run but it could literally happen to anyone in that field. Probably a bit more likely to happen to Ivey, but still, with fieldsizes that small it doesn't prove anything. I think you need a lot more luck to ship an mtt with 5000 entries than winning this thing 3 out of 4 times.

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02-02-2015 , 01:41 PM

#115

chzbrglr

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by uradoodooface

That's the story he told the golfers he hustled anyway

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02-02-2015 , 02:04 PM

#116

CocaineColin

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 67

Ivey is the Phil Hellmuth of golf.

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02-02-2015 , 02:45 PM

#117

khrage

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 370

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerdSuperfly

there's no better test, to proof who's the best, than a tournament with 20-ish runners

where in my post did i say this was the test to prove he was the best?

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02-02-2015 , 02:49 PM

#118

CBorders

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 16,505

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soepgroente

Especially true considering the 250k is basically a turbo.

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02-02-2015 , 02:57 PM

#119

PraguePoker

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 327

Even by NVG standards this thread is really bad. Asking if Ivey is the best poker player in the world is like asking if Lebron James is the best athlete in the world.

Having said that, in a live mixed game environment, I would think most top poker pros would name Ivey as the best all around player alive today.

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02-02-2015 , 02:59 PM

#120

IPlayNLHE

adept

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 889

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickenDave

OP flames Micro PG&C threads and posts thread stating that he can't beat the Micros after years of trying.

Is now qualified to say that the second biggest online poker winner of all time won't be able to beat 2Knl in a few years. On the basis of a downswing and two televised hands.

Welcome to TwoPlusTwo

Lmao.

Gotta laugh at the people saying winning 3 of 4 super high roller events is meaningless...

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02-02-2015 , 03:00 PM

#121

grinder7

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 152

lol best poker player in the world lol. best degenerate ever to live is more like it.

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02-02-2015 , 03:21 PM

#122

greatwhite

self-banned

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,506

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerdSuperfly

He's been on the podcast. I'd be surprised to hear if any serious poker player on the planet never heard of 2+2 at this point. To steal a line, I don't know how to put this, but the company is kind of a big deal, it's published many paperback books.

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02-02-2015 , 04:10 PM

#123

psychosocial

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 1,345

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatwhite

If you think ivey hasnt been using statistics and analytics since he started playing youre crazy. Why do you think he was the best for so long? Obviously he was working hard and putting in time other players werent. Once the internet provided unlimited information access, it made it harder for him to stand out because more people started studying the same material. He makes his living in casinos and succeeds so of course he knows all the math. Any professional player at these levels has to know the numbers otherwise its burning money and hes in the business of making money.

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02-02-2015 , 04:29 PM

#124

greatwhite

self-banned

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,506

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychosocial

He says he would think about hands and played 12 hours a day, I don't know how much he actually studies the numbers vs how much of it has become intuitive. Have you ever watched Mike Matusow on TV? It's pretty obvious he doesn't know the math behind poker. Though my guess is that he's gotten crushed in the big online games. The game used to be a lot easier and it's definitely passing a lot of old school pros by.

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02-02-2015 , 04:37 PM

#125

crashwhips

self-banned

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,940

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88keyz

Wow Ivey is down 4.5mil from online this year...that's pretty bad

Considering the stakes he plays it's not that horrible, but it is telling.

He is apparently not any good anymore at any of the poker variants he plays online by today's standards or in comparison to his online opposition. Other player's hard work and number crunching has eliminated the advantages he used to have playing online (fearlessness, unlimited br, sticking to diligent stop-losses, years of experience playing all the games)

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