Maybe Doug Polk can chime in. He used to play the ladies event when he was broke and needed to seize every drop of EV he could to support his hair gel addiction.

They are, but not really for any reason related to this topic.

thanks for making my point

Except....this tournament did have an age restriction. The structure sheet said participants must be 50 or older to play. I assume other Seniors events have similar language somewhere. Those who played were just capitalizing on the fact that the casino was unwilling or unable to enforce the stated rule of the competition.

Which rules are OK to break? It's OK to get away with something just because its not enforced?

The question remains...how did you KNOW they were not 50. As I indicated, there are many who are 50 and over who do not appear to be that old. I'm one of them...I've had many who doubt that I was even 35 much less turning 50 this year.

I fully agree. The post I replied to was mentioning "thinking games", so I used the chess analogy because the game is so complex.

As far as poker tournaments go, I think that the lenghts of playing time in a day is one of the more serious factors.

FWIW, in todays (western) world most people at age 50 are nowhere close to what most people think a "senior" is. If they want to have real senior tournaments they should put the age restriction to 65 and older.

Come on now. There ain't any people in their 20's who can pass for over 50. Regardless, one of these persons I saw at this event is about 27 and was freely admitting he was not over 50.

You're welcome, I must've misunderstood you lol

1) you never indicated that ANY of the players were in their 20's or appeared to be in their 20's before this post

2) yes, actually there are some who will pass for over 50 precisely because there are many who are 50 and above that do not look 50. 50 does NOT automatically mean grey, balding with glasses and bad golf pants or polyester of the cheapest type.

3) when there are people who enter AND admit they are under 50 is the time that one raises the question with a TD if the question is going to be raised. However, those are ALSO the players that tend to overrate their own abilities and are apt to get their ass handed to them by the 50+ crowd...

Just because something is "legal" doesn't mean it's "right/ok/moral."

Slavery was legal not that long ago, doesn't mean it was "ok" to own people just because it was technically legal.

(I'm a registered republican, white male, whose ancestors owned slaves in 'murica, and even I think discrimination of any sort is wrong....whether it's race, religion OR age...hell, I even voted for Trump )

(side note: I fully admit racial discrimination was/is WAY WAY WAY WAY worse then age discrimination is nowadays, but I still stand by my belief, no discrimination is optimal and what we should be aiming for)

That's fine; I was just trying to answer your question....there was no doubt whatsoever from the start that this one person was not 50, and as I said, he acknowledged it. And FWIW, no, this person is not likely to get his ass handed to him by the seniors. He is about 27, a regular MTTer, not a world-class elite player but with six figures plus of cashes and modest accomplishments like circuit rings, etc. Maybe not elite, but light years ahead of the average person in the event. And yeah, I did ask the TD but they said they wouldn't do anything.

I am glad you will be playing seniors events; they are lots of fun; some of my best times in poker are at seniors. I play for fun, and maybe get to play 2 or 3 a year, and I don't like to see them f'ed up by people breaking the rules.

A substantial number of poker players are angle-shooters with little regard for rules or social norms. News at 5

That's right......but we don't have to make it easy for them!!

Sure not everything that is legal is what would be considered moral.

Not hiring someone simply because they are (old/young/black/a woman) is discrimination. Having a poker tournament for seniors/the ladieeees is not what I would classify as discrimination.

People throw the word discrimination around too much. Just because everyone is not included in something doesn't mean it's discrimination.
Sorry if i politarded this up.

I've never entered a tourney where I didn't have to show legal ID, how is it possible to reg for a seniors/ladies tourney without qualifying?

The line can be drawn by common sense, current social norms, and what other popular events do. There's no reason poker has to push the boundaries of exclusive offerings. They're simply offering a type of event that's common and acceptable in other competitions/events (seniors golf event, ladies golf event, etc).

The people that think like this really miss the boat on the point of these tournaments. It's not about discrimination. You know how as an adult, you might want to go to a bar/casino, and have some fun with your friends, and part of the fun is not having screaming babies/toddlers hanging around? It's like that but extend it so women don't have a bunch of guys hanging around, or 50+ don't have a bunch of 20 yr olds hanging around. Poker is a very social game, and sometimes it's just nice to interact with people your own age/gender, especially when it's not the norm. The people that exploit this rule because the TDs can't legally enforce it are idiots. Would you also say it's your right and better for society to show up to the weekly AARP coffee meeting as a 20 yr old because there's no law against it and it's less ageist to have all-inclusive coffee meetings?

I'm really glad others see this the same way as me. Really makes me feel a lot better.
Sick brag. You can usually tell if someone is 50+ or thereabouts. Its usually fairly obvious. There aren't "many" people who are over 50 but look way younger. If you're one of those guys then just put your ID on the table in front of your chips and announce yourself so everyone knows and don't doubt you.

Given that over 50's have all the wealth and under 50's can't make rent these days, I think it makes sense to give those starving millenials a chance at winning a tiny bit of money from their wealthy overlords.

That's what happens the other 364 days of the year.

Well in sports like Tennis, Swimming and Athletics the masters grades begin at 35 (might even be 30 for swimming) and I know they have over 35 grades for rugby and soccer here too so comparatively 50 is much older than all those. Yet I know they are physical but at 50 even in card games you would have some physical disadvantages that 20 and 30 somethings in particular don't have. They could change the name from Senior to something else I guess.

Are there precedent cases where age discrimination in tournaments (of any kind, such as senior golf tournament) resulted in legal action?

The age discrimination act is fairly clear in that it is speaking of employer / employee (prospective or otherwise) relationships. I'm not sure how that could be applied to tournaments, (even players filing professionally file as self employed) and I don't know why the casino wouldn't take a very clear and obvious stance on this.

Other solution is to ban hoodies, which would inadvertently ban 99% of millenials.

discrimination
[dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuh n]
noun
1. an act or instance of discriminating, or of making a distinction.
2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit:
racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
3. the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment:
She chose the colors with great discrimination.

Virtually every decision involves discrimination by definition. The question of legality or ethics may be debatable. Number 2 is not the only meaning of discrimination, just the loudest.

Stop obfuscating. "You don't *know* .." is a tired Internet forum device used to change the subject.

To put an end to this misdirection, I will tell you that I (and others) *know*. My source of knowledge is speaking directly to players who entered, who acknowledged that they were under 50, and by speaking directly to the gentleman who runs the room. With respect to the alleged entry by a man into the ladies event, I confess that I did not discover the answer with absolute certainty.

Simply put, this is a *known* issue.

------------------

To the OP, I (and many others) agree with you. I think the discrimination issue is a red herring. Seniors and ladies events are only offered as part of multi-week series events, so whatever discrimination that exists is minimal and serves a greater purpose: to make the game more accessible to groups of individuals who might not otherwise participate, and to encourage greater attendance at a series. To those who can't seen to grasp the importance of this, think a little harder. Also consider the following:

1. The ladies and senior events are usually offered at similar price points and at similar times to open field events. For example in this series, the ladies event ($250) was on a Saturday. That same day, a $250 open field event was held. (No such luck with the seniors event in this series.)

2. The restricted events are always at the bottom of the price points and guarantees. Players aren't missing guarantees or overlays by being excluded.

3. AFAIK, restricted events are not counted toward overall series champion designations when applicable.

Of course, this will never convince the absolutists in this or any other thread. There will always be people who think and entry restrictions have no place. I agree to disagree with them. But even if those individuals are technically right, it doesn't answer the question as to whether players *should* enter these events, and whether, in entering, they are in effect trolling or otherwise harming the overall state of the game.

Im the 27 yearold looking regular MTTer OP was talking about. Actually I'm 30. I brought my Grandma to the casino that day to play in the senior tournament. While we were at the cage registering I told her I wished I could play with her and the staff said it was ok. So I bought in also. I was just going to play cash games while she played the tournament but I thought it would be more fun if we both played. Didn't know OP was running around telling people on me. Sorry buddy. I think the real crime here is OP just turned 50 and wants to take advantage of the over 50 65 and 70 yr olds playing like my 80 yr old grandma.

Well, maybe we both wanted to play against the field that this tournament attracted. But I committed the real crime? No, you are the one who broke the rules, not me. You wanted to play with your grandma? As I said, the people who do this will always have their rationalizations. But the fact remains, you broke a rule...it's printed right on the structure sheet that you must be over 50 to play. You took advantage of the fact that the staff wasn't going to enforce the written rules. I think you are the one who is wrong here, not me. I hope you at least think about the purpose of these tournaments; its to attract more people to the series for a fun event. I wasn't the only one that day who thought what you were doing was wrong, i'm just the one who posted on 2 + 2 about it. Maybe in the future you will think better about this. You can't really justify your action; it will only make it more embarrassing for you. Probably the best thing to do is admit you may have been wrong, move on, and then everyone will probably just forget this.