I'm the only 50+ guy that voted yes?

Does that make me young at heart or a weirdo?

I understand the significance of utilitarian value as opposed to absolute value; however, there is no utilitarian value to losing money at a pit game.

What does this even mean? Not trying to be rude or anything, but this is just a mess of ambiguity.

I was talking about examples such as these in a less concrete way. And 'utility' is not the same as 'utilitarian value'. Its a concept in economics.

and yes, I know you're not being rude. I tend to agree with most all of your posts around this forum.

It is extremely naive to think that the things casinos give you while you gamble are free. Also, if you'd like to explain the difference between utility and utilitarian value to me I would I appreciate it.

EDIT: after some more thought and searching I think I might know what you mean by the difference, or possibly that I might have been using the wrong term, but I'll let you respond first.

Voted yes, but seriously considered no after playing some roulette. That **** is fun! I'm just there for the drinks and to yell random stuff.

"COCKTAILS!"

"HOT SHOOOOTER!!"

I made the switch from casino games to poker before internet poker even existed. I was down $2000 playing slots one night at the Riverside Casino in Laughlin, while heading back to my room and considering suicide, I passed the poker room and poked my head in the door wondering what it was about. The poker manager welcomed me and helped me get started in a $1 stud game. I had no clue but they were very nice and patient with me...I ended up playing all night and only lost $20. I was in love with poker immediately and that was the end of casino games for me. All I knew was that I lost less playing poker than any other game and also it was much more social than sitting in front of a slot machine. I had no idea about the actual edge of the casino games or even what the term EV meant.

Most people don't know and don't care about the difference between poker and the other casino games. I don't even tell people I play poker any more. I've had so many conversations with people where I explain the specific percentage of edges that each casino game has and how poker is different because we aren't fighting the house for money and the house never loses etc. and I watch their eyes glaze over as they stop listening to me and don't care.

People don't care if a game is or isn't +ev. They just want to gamble and have fun. All they care about is there is a chance they can win.

Going out for a meal is -ve. It's cheaper to eat at home
Going to the pictures is -ve. Wait for it to be on Netflix
Going to a pub is -ve. Get some beers in and drink at home

As long as a night at a casino is treated as entertainment and any loss is within your entertainment budget, then it's the same as any off the activities above.

Casinos are open late, charge reasonable prices for drink and food, often have live bands at the weekend, don't charge entry. You can go to a casino with friends, play some table games, lose and it still be cheaper than a night out on the town.

It's only an issue of you don't underst that the expectation is you lose, you have a berrer than zero chance of coming away ahead in any one evening and you've had some fun.

Add in degen gamblers and no, casino games will never die.

Nope. You save time and mental stress (for some people) by eating out rather than cooking. Plus, for most people, the food will probably taste better. That's what we call utility.

Nope, you miss out on things like the large screen and better sound. Utility.

I would think this one is obvious, but, nope. You miss out on the social aspect of the bar (which is the reason most people go to the bar, not to drink).


What utility does playing a pit game offer?

You get a rush from hoping you might win? That doesn't make sense. We are (or can be) 100% certain that we will lose. Would it be fun it they asked you to bet $5 on blackjack and just took $0.10? No, of course not.

The question becomes then, what does variance offer to these gamblers?

In my opinion the answer is confusion. Confusion either based on how good they are at processing information, or, based on how much information they have. I also think the former option is exponentially more likely to be true.

Poker definitely helped me to get less involved in casino games and lowered my expectation of winning (big).

I still enjoy playing casinogames a few times a year however, just with family or friends for the entertainment. But I would never go alone, or play them online. I just love blackjack strategy too for example, just minimizing your lose rates and being able to have a great time playing there.

Poker is great but ones you get consumed with it and start grinding several hours straight, winning just feels different. It doesn't feel like a gambling win then. Winning big on a slot machine or a blackjack table gives a different kind of rush (that's why people get addicted too obviously).

I didn't say they enjoy them because they are -EV. I said they enjoy -EV games (and activities in general).

My evidence? Decades of observing people who know that casino games are -EV, enjoying playing those games.

decades? and david lyons wally says that you 2 are forming a new business together, is this true or are you gonna talk about harvey wallbanger instead?

No, but I'm a complete degenerate.

Although the only casino game I play is blackjack, slots and roulette are extremely boring to me.

I'm confused.

lol figures, check your pm's

love to let loose and hit the pits, just feel more guilty about it when I lose. I have seen a drop off in my blackjack play though which used to be my game of choice. Can't beat the atmosphere of craps. New craving is ultimate holdem. max betting preflop with any ace or decent king because its mathematically correct. getting paid off board monsters. shared progressive jackpots with Caribbean stud, let it ride, etc.

Ah got it. Great movie, seen it many times.