Venetian: Taking a Look at the Other Side

For the record, I have no association with any property and only write this as a point of discussion that I think is interesting.

I believe that online poker should be legal. It is obvious there were issues, and after all, there were/are many bad apples in that industry, and who knows when/if the Full Tilt fiasco would have been discovered if it were not for the shutdown. Nevertheless, while Sheldon Adleson may be motivated by money, even if some of his moral thoughts are reasonable discussion points, should we really be calling for a ban of his poker room?

Adelson has not said ban POKER, he has an issue with ONLINE poker. In fact, it is hard to argue against the idea that he cares about brick and mortar poker more than anyone. Now in no way am I here to make a promotional pitch for the Venetian or the poker room there. But for the point of this discussion, there is a very good case to be made that the Venetian has the best poker room in the city (size, comfort, etc...). More to the point is the fact that it was remodeled just two years ago and that remodel included an expansion. So this same person that people are angry with for the online issue has put more money into his brick and mortar poker room than anyone else. In fact, Caesars, the parent company of which runs the biggest tournament in the world, just reduced the size of their room and put what was left of it in a very open, noisy space.

So while Adelson is making a public case against online poker, he has also made a case for poker, in creating a room that takes up more square footage than any other property. And while I do not know the numbers, most people make an argument that poker does not bring in as much money as slot machines and table games. So given this is the case, people are 'bashing' the same person who was willing to give up revenue for the comfort of the poker community.

If I had the ability to influence Mr. Adelson regarding his stance on online poker I would certainly do so. I am in the US and miss the opportunity to play on Stars as much as anyone. But while I will not forgive him for that stance and wish he would think differently, I do not see the reason to be spiteful of the same person who has at the same time supported the brick and mortar players very strongly.

Would we call for a boycott of PokerStars if they came out against brick and mortar poker for some reason. Or would we disagree strongly with their stance while buying into the Sunday Million every Sunday?

Adelson's meddling in politics indirectly put a lot of users of this site out work. There is every reason to be spiteful.

you can ONLY benefit from the Venetian if you go to Vegas, you can make $$$$$ online anywhere there is internet, this is not hard to figure out

Hi dweb77poker:

This might become a very big thread, so there are a few things about your post I want to clarify and I'll try to do so in a neutral manner relative to your position:

Best wishes,
Mason

Okay

You're making an assumption which may not be true. Without getting into the specifics of the FTP mess, it just might of been possible that if FTP could have operated unimpeded in all aspects, there never would have been a problem. Assuming that there would be is in my opinion going too far.

Just so there is no confusion, while 2+2 is not currently accepting any advertising from Sands properties including The Venetian, we are not calling for a boycott. That is any calls for a boycott that you see on this site are being done by individual posters without our support.

Yes, The Venetian has the largest poker room in Las Vegas, but there is more to that to be the best poker room in Las Vegas and this is another discussion.

I'm not sure this is true. Yes The Venetian did remodel their poker room, but so did The Bellagio a few years ago and their remodel, since it added Bobby's Room may have been just as expensive.

It's my opinion that this new room will be a significant step up for poker players who go to Caesars. The former room was hidden from the casino customers and this new room is right in the center of the action, and should in my opinion be a much better spot for casino drop-ins which should produce better games.

This is a point that has been debated in the poker/casino industry for as long as I can remember. If the poker room is eliminated, does it mean that more people will be playing casino slots. If it was clear that this was the case, then most poker rooms in casinos would probably disappear.

The fact is that many poker rooms also supply customers to other forms of casino gambling, particularly video poker and sports, and this is now well understood by many casinos. Plus, go into a casino at 4:00 am and see where there is more business, the poker room or the blackjack pit. So my guess is that the poker room at The Venetian was expanded because at the time of the expansion the economics of the poker room made sense for it to be expanded.

Except that a healthy Internet poker industry can supply players to brick and mortar poker rooms, and if Adelson has his way, this won't happen. By the way, an example of the Internet supplying players to a poker room would be when a few years ago PokerStars had their North American Poker Tour and they held a tournament at The Venetian.

I think this is a straw man argument. You're imagining a situation that will never happen.

Nice response Mason but mine is a lot shorter. Adelson is a petty old douchebag that I wish nothing but bad things for

really like Masons SUPPLY paragraph, 18-20 yr olds get expierence and fall in love with poker online, soon as they turn 21 they head straight for a live casino, they cant wait try their game live, Venetian isn't building a player pool, if my choice was give Venetian 1 dollar of mine or quit poker, I would never play again, so chew on that Sheldon

If Sheldon A. Had said "I'm against online poker because it's bad for my business," I could respect that. But he's playing the it's-bad-for-Amurica card, and that's not only insulting, it's hypocritical.

The trouble with online, imo, is that kids these ages and younger are/were enabled to play and in the long run I think it's detrimental. Where do they get their bankroll and whatnot? I don't think an "18 year old" is psychologically ready for this stuff as a general thing.

Over and over again the coverage of young prodigy gamblers who dropped out of school/work to focus on being a full time gamblers... how many of these kids make it and even the ones that appear to pull it off wind up crashing and burning often enough.

Countless and unending threads of scammers/hustlers/thieves and worse on a day by day basis and who knows how much more... is an 18 year old kid ready for this s__t? You talk to most 18 year olds and reality is they're playing at a way younger age as it is. They also have the typical attitude that comes with that age that basically sets them up for failure regards bankroll management and real life stuff not to mention the predators.

I think Sheldon A. is 100% $$ motivated but his arguments do have merit cause reality is Pokerstars cannot keep kids from playing. I don't feel sorry for the PSU Mikes of the world but kids do stupid crap and should have parameters which online poker just cannot enforce.

fyp

You have got to be kidding. This cannot even be close to being true.

In no particular order, the amount of money invested by any of Caesar's and PokerStars and bwin.Party in live poker has got to completely dwarf the relative pittance that LVS has invested in it. Each of those operators have huge, multi-national live poker operations that span multiple continents, represent many millions of dollars of investment, and pretending that a single poker room operated by a single casino compares is just absurd.

but, but, but .....

what about the under-aged, money laundering / funneling to terrorists, people so drunk they can't sit in their chair?

you have no control over that with online...

Mason is right

Also, lol at the idea that the Venetian is more pleasant to play at than Aria. Worse chairs, worse drinks, worse dealers, less pleasant atmosphere etc.

I call.

I'm plagiarizing from someone on twitter from a few weeks ago, but I can't remember who... 'When you play at the Venetian, your rake is literally being used to try and prevent you from playing online poker.'

Why not give that rake to someone else? Especially when the Aria is a better room anyway.

Hi Sheldon,

Thanks for making the arguments for US-regulated online poker: minimum 21+ age; age & identity verification; etc. Obv a lot better than the unregulated offshore sites available now to the underage.

By the way, are you all paid up on all the multiple fines assessed at your various LV Sands properties where you got caught for allowing underage gambling? Seems like there are some holes in your detection of minors in your B&M casinos. Too bad you don't have any age verification systems implemented, other than floor employees guessing if they see someone that looks young.

And while you are at it, how about implementing some automatic behavior analytics systems for your B&M casinos, like those available for online sites to detect compulsive gambling behavior? That way your customers who are gambling addicts don't have to go into unrecoverable debt before they are detected by your eagle-eyed hostesses.

Glad to know your conscience is clean enough to impose your faux-morals on everyone else. Keep up the good work. Maybe you will be able to get away someday soon with your wish to nuke Iran, when your billions of dollars amassed from gambling money around the world finally buys the U.S. Presidency and Congress.

Thanks for making a lovely poker room available in Las Vegas for us dupes.

P.S. Thanks also to you, OP, for dropping your rake into the hands of Sheldon Adelson's empire. Adelson's motives for making such a nice poker room available are obviously altruistic, not profit, as proven by his character and integrity.

Sheldon wants to completely deny adults the choice to play internet poker. That is way over the line.

Natural causes is busy killing all of these other old people and he's too f'n lazy to spend a day with Sheldon Adelson

I love playing at the aria- but forgetting aldeson's stance against online poker the venitian is a really nice place to play.

as to why i'd play there- simple. if i played 1/2 nl i would never play there. but when playing 5/10nl or 2/5 plo-5/10 plo not during the wsop game selection is limited. venitian is never my first choice, but if the games at the aria and bell suck and ventian has a 5/10 game or good plo game I'll play it.

i'd rather by 12 bucks an hour go somewhere else but at the end of the day it isn't gonna make a damn bit of difference.

Sounds like someone (OP and the poster above me) wants to justify stepping into the Venetian.

I have good memories of the Venetian complex, but I won't set foot in there again while Adelson is alive or his stance against online poker exists.

And I am someone who counts myself more of a live player. It doesn't matter if Adelson supports live players as he is hurting ALL poker players.

agreed and if i played low stakes i would never go in there
but i'm not gonna sit in awful games or take a night off of poker if i wanna play and the v is where the good 5/10 and plo games are.denying them 12 bucks an hour and myself way more money than that accomplishes nothing.it's the epitome of cutting your nose to spite your face.

fwiw about 5 % of my time playing in vegas the last 2 years has been at the v. if i played 1/2 nl there were 87 other 1/2 games in vegas it would be 0 pct.

until maybe 2 or so years ago i absolutely despised the bellagio bc of the way they treated people. but often times there would be 6 5/10 nl games in vegas and 4 would be at the bellagio. so i could have boycotted them to "prove a point", accomplishing nothing or I could go make good money.same thing here.frankly playing at the b 2 years ago bothered me a lot more than playing at the v now does.

i think aldeson is a prick and everything that comes out of his mouth is bull****, but it's easy to get all high and mighty when it's not costing you anything.

It may not be monetarily but it is costing me something. I got engaged on the gondola ride at Venetian and would like to go back there, but won't. Venetian has an exhibit on da Vinci and I am a big fan of da Vinci's work but I won't get to see it.

If I am willing to stand up for what is right, but you won't because it would cost you money I say......

lmao i'm not taking advice from a guy who likes gondola rides



if i took a stand against every poker room i didnt like i would never have played at the venitian commerce or bellagio.so i'd miss the best games in la and vegas- brilliant move for a poker player.

guess what i play poker to make money- but i should form a pointless one man protest costing myself money and pretend it will prevent a billionaire from using his money to fight online poker.makes sense. how will i ever live myself with the few hundred dollars a year they get from me in rake.
i guess if i stopped playing there completely it would make it easier to avoid the irresistible allure of the gondola ride.

This seems to come back to light like every couple months or so.

http://quadjacks.com/why-i-continued...f-the-boycott/

I also had a good lol at this

http://f5poker.com/poker-news/2014/7...-battleground/

I play at V just about every day. When the boycott went on, I or any of the other regs didn't even notice. It's going to do nothing.

Venetian is pretty clearly the best run room in Vegas, good staff, good food, most tables, etc. Of course this is only my opinion but I don't see how it could not at least be in the running.

Poker players are out for their own interests, as evidenced in both articles above.

I know a CET analyst that told me they make more money from slot machines in one day then they do the entire year from poker. I would imagine it's pretty much the same at Venetian. Your rake dollars are so insignificant to Sheldon that it's basically a principal thing which makes little sense to me.

It's not about the rake. It's about Public Relations, i.e. a stink in the media. If it were an organized boycott with most poker players participating, including you and the other regs, AND there was a media blitz involving pros & celebrities, then it could have some effect in the battle for online poker. As it stands, you are right - the money will make no difference to Adelson, and it is just a stand on principles.

rob-exactly.
all things being equal i'd play somewhere else but all things arent always equal

and fwiw the venitian staff always treats players great, has great dealers,often has rake free plo games starting out (is it ok for me to play these since they don't get any money doc? lol) and competent fair ethical flooring that quickly puts a stop to shady bull**** that is accepted at the commerce and bellagio.

i also love the irony of a bunch of players trying to boycott when these same players have done more to destroy online poker than aldeson ever did with their demands of 24 tabling, dealt rakeback, huds, seat scripting software, hu bum hunting etc.