The Trooper97 was recently asked to stop filming hands by a third casino, MGM. (The other two are Planet Hollywood and Caesar's)

Is this the beginning of the end of a recently popular phenomena? The spike in viewership among the more popular vloggers has been impressive in the last few weeks. The number of vloggers jumping in the game has also been dramatic in the same time frame.

Couple questions:

1. Are the casinos cutting off their collective noses? Clearly these vloggers must be driving some action to the cardrooms of not only Vegas but around the country.

2. Are there real issues, which make filming only the vlogger's hole cards (no other players, dealers, etc.) a serious enough problem for the casino to ask them to stop?

3. What is your favorite kind of poker video? (Much like my pron pron, I like my poker pron of the vlogger/amateur variety)

Mike Matusow was live streaming his Aria session vs Phil Helmuth and Todd Brunson yesterday including showing his hole cards.

No one was bothered by it even with the ribbing and whining by Mike.

That said casinos have long had a no photography policy to protect the privacy of the patrons.

This brings up another thorny question. Does it only matter who you are? High profile, in-the-loop OK, go ahead. Average guy, STOP.

IMO- the above situation would be horrible.

I think as long as they don't film other peoples faces (which they don't, they only film their hole cards and that's it), and don't slow the game down, I don't see why anyone would care. its so stupid that people care so much and complain about something that has no effect on them. and then you got online players like doug polk calling them out on twitter. a guy who has never played 1/3 or 2/5 live in his entire life. I can see why it would greatly affect you though Doug. After all, no way you could ever let these lowly vloggers have more subscribers than you on youtube.

Has Doug Polk given an explanation for why he called out the Vloggers? Maybe on your VLOG you can?

How is this different then you streaming hands on twitch Doug?

Well for starters, I don't know why there is this thing going around that I am trying to shut the vloggers down. Im not at all, and I even said so on twitter.





Second, the reason its different is because the internet and brick and mortar casinos are not the same thing. There are different standards as to what is ok and not ok for each of them.

For what its worth, I think these are great for poker and are bringing more people over to to watch poker on youtube from the vlogging scene.

I will say however it seems clearly against casino policy, If that makes it "OMG DOUG STOP TRYING TO SHUT THEM DOWN" then so be it. Imagine being one of the other players at the table while someone is filming themselves playing at your table secretly. Doesn't seem to be ok in my eyes to do that.

I think it will probably end up being sort of the opposite actually. Maybe at the nosebleeds you can do it if people can agree, but I think in general lesser known pros will be able to get away with it because the floor won't know that they are recording their play.

I think youtube is a lot different from twitch. Twitch is a competition, you can only watch 1 stream at a time as a casual viewer. So in that sense, you need to beat the other guys in order to maintain a good viewership.

Youtube is the opposite, casual viewers often watch many channels and the more people watching the better it is for poker. Over the course of time that these vlogs have been going off, my channel has gotten a ton of growth. I think its mainly the content I am putting out, but I think a good chunk of it is there are people watching poker on youtube that are watching many channels.

I think its good for everyone the more poker is being watched. I just am not going to break casino policy to make videos because I don't want to get banned from any of the bigger properties (And I think I would get caught almost immediately).

So far it has been done pretty tastefully without revealing any information on opponents.

I think it's important to use the platform you have to advocate for anything that could bring more players to the game like twitch streaming.

Overall I think you have done a fair job doing that so far with your channels.

Not much difference in doing it at a live table or behind a computer screen IMO.

Appreciate the response tho I was not sure if you had addressed this yet


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It may be an issue with Nevada Gaming Control Board. They are very much against live streaming gaming action.

I don't know if you have ever actually watched the vlogs before, but they never film the other players at the table, so I cant think of any reason why the other players at the table would be upset one bit. if it was someone who I played with regularly, I would be happy that they were filming. and then I would go and watch their vlog when I get home.

no one is forcing you to film. it seems like for someone who plays online 99% of the time, you are too preoccupied with making sure that all casino rules are strictly enforced (or is it only this one particular casino rule that you care about?). The local casino I play at has a no phones out at the table whatsoever during tournaments rule. does that mean that if you were playing a tourney there, you would call out for the floor every time a guy takes his phone out of his pocket to send a text to his wife?

I have watched a few of them, and yes sometimes in the background there are hands/little bits of peoples shirts and stuff. There is a problem with saying, its ok as long as you don't get their faces. How do you actually implement those rules if someone is filming? Are you going to check their phones? Do they just get to film and then if it turns out they were filming you then its your problem as a player?

There is also the obvious problem of what if the recording is being sent to other players at the table. I know none of these vloggers are doing these things, but just because they aren't doesn't mean the casinos shouldn't try to create a fair gaming environment.

I don't play online 99% of the time by the way, I would say in the last couple years something like 30% of my play time has been playing live poker.

The main thing I want to know is what the rules are, so that I know whether I am allowed to go film this type of content as well. I don't see what's wrong with an honest conversation on whether this type of content is allowed and thus if I would be allowed to make some of these videos.

As far as your last question, I would put it like this. Don't make rules that you aren't going to enforce or will only apply sometimes/to some people. If you don't allow phones at the table, then no, you should not be able to use your phone at the table.

Whether it's a reasonable rule or not (it's not) don't make rules planning on not having the rule be part of the environment to play in that you have created.

https://www.periscope.tv/themouthmatusow/1jMJgABMVDwKL?

As a rec. player i love watching the vlog. I think the issues we are facing here it's that this is new technology. Alot of the casino & poker player/patrons are operating on an old business model and mentality. Live streaming is a new phenomena and alot of ppls are not used to been record while they gamble in a casino. Brick and Mortar casino exist as a safe place where ppl can go and gamble without been judge by society because playing poker is still consider a vice that get look down in today culture. I can see the reason some players will feel like their sanctuary been violated. But as more and more players like Andrew Neeme & Jake Cody start vlogging this will be consider normal and casino and players will welcome it. We just need to convince the live poker community that this will be good for the game in the long run. Casino don't care if you are recording as long as you can prove that you can increase foot traffic to their venue they will welcome you with open arms

how do you prove that anybody who is using their phone at the table is not also filming, unless you explicitly went into their phone and checked? its impossible to 100% enforce a no filming rule unless you also have a rule completely banning phones at the table. the only other way to prove it would be to go and watch the vlogs on youtube, which would mean the rule would obviously only affect the guys with a large number of subscribers, aka the guys who are a massive net positive to the game Andrew Neeme has over 17k subscribers less than 2 months after starting vlogging. who knows what the ceiling is for youtube poker vloggers, but I don't think its a stretch to say he has the potential of reaching 6 figure subs after a couple of years of doing this. while the guys that you are so worried about who are filming their cards and sending it to their buddies, would not be affected one bit by strict enforcement of the rule, which by the way the casinos only started caring about after yourself and others I presume brought attention to it.

The idea seems pretty obnoxious and I think in general it shouldn't be allowed.

obv the aspiring yt star wants to get rid of some tough competition ... gosh i wish i would find my twitter pw to warn everybody that doug is up to no good


anyway ... i think vlogging is a big problem for business like casinos, b/c strict rules can't be enforced (w/o disgruntle too many customers), but b/c of privacy and regulatory issues they can't just say "go ahead, it's good for the revenue" either.

so the best line for them, is that they give every customer with a mobile phone in their hand, the benefit of doubt. on the other hand, they won't do nothing, if someone gets too much attention, like trooper.

of course it's great for the poker community, but from the side of the casinos, they're way more potential problems (e.g. gaming board & fines, costumers & privacy or bad reviews) , then benefits (new players).

This.

+2

I think there are a couple of things at play here that work against being acceptable.

Casinos used to be a safe environment for "anonymity" which worked well with their business model as gambling is taboo for a decent percentage of the population. Casinos would protect your privacy and still has clauses written into employment contracts that makes it a fireable offense to reveal information about the guests. It's suppose to be an environment that allows whales to enter the casino and gamble with two hookers and blow a ton of money without him having to worry about it being in the newspaper. When I first moved here people would get stern warnings, very quickly for pulling out a camera on the casino floor. It was more common to see celebrities on the casino floor hanging out at the bars or at the tables and they didn't have to worry people taking their pictures or hassling them. They were protected. That time has came and went with the internet, twitter, bloggers, etc but the people that run the casinos are still the old guard.

Then you have the gaming control board that has to try to keep up with new technology and cheating. You used to not be allowed to you your cell phone in the sportsbook not that long ago. You still can't use it at the casino pit tables. They have become much more relaxed at the poker tables because they aren't risking their own money but I think live video streaming is just taking it to a level that crosses a line when it comes to both privacy and security concerns.

I'll be shocked if they continue to allow it. Because it's impossible to control, and casinos will never give up control (of their brand, the experience, of their monopoly on recording what happens within their property, etc.).

There are obviously grey areas, snapping a pic at the table, etc. But constant recording? Completely different animal. They probably looked the other way in the beginning, but now that it's catching on, they will perceive it as an unnecessary risk.

Pity, because I really enjoy the vlogs I follow...

I agree it will be a pity if these stop altogether, but it is easy to understand the casino point of view. Smart technologies appear all the time, and if this becomes widespread, it is only a matter of time before someone uses it as a cover for a sophisticated scam.

I think a reasonable request to casinos would be to allow it when all players at the table agree, but forbid it if there is an objection. That would allow most celebrity vloggers to continue.

Welcome to Earth.

This could give rise to "live ghosting" where one player streams the cards & action at the table while the ghost tells him in headphones what to do.

+3

The "omg they are only recording their cards, not other people. Why are casinos being nits?" Argument is pretty lame. I'm not gonna trust some unknowns camera ability, intelligence, or intentions.

This has been done many times in chess (where the financial rewards or incentives are very low) and has - in part - led to a ban on mobile phones or any other recording device in the tournament hall. (We had to go through airport-style security before entering the venue at the recent Olympiad in Azerbaijan and this is becoming the norm in big chess events)

Of course, poker is different - any 'ghost' would know only one person's hand, but if the footage showed the table action/cards as well it could quite easily lead to cheating. How obvious the cheating would appear is another question entirely.