Ultimate Cover-Up; A Look at the Lies Involving the UB Cheating Investigation (tl;dr) - Poker News

Mookman5 · 05-12-2009, 08:10 PM

This is a chronological timeline of events and statements made about the UltimateBet cheating scandal. I have pointed out the many inconsistencies and changing of the stories by UB, or people associated with UB. The quotes I have taken from each link are either misleading, false, or later proven to be wrong. I did my best to summarize and show these inconsistencies.

I am proposing that UltimateBet initially tried to cover-up most of the cheating and conclude its investigation in late May 2008. They made a public statement and sent out Paul Leggett and Annie Duke to do some interviews. Then players on 2+2 start releasing more suspicious accounts originally held back. UB makes a statement saying they are looking into some additional accounts. They also tried to make it look like the refund process was complete, or nearly complete. We know this couldn’t have been true since they needed lawsuit money to pay the players.

Then a UB insider named brainwashdodo releases inside information from UltimateBet. This information includes transfer histories and admin. Screenshots. Again, UB is playing catch up and making more statements

At the “conclusion” of the investigation in November the KGC was going to give its final report , but that has not happened yet. UltimateBet has ignored players requests for Hand Histories and a complete list of all 88 cheating account names. In November 2008, UltimateBet told a player a statement was coming soon. Both UB and KGC have been silent for around six months and are seemingly finished with the issue. Many Limit Hold ‘Em players still believe that they are owed money, but were told by UB that the refund process is complete. I have transcribed interviews, compiled timelines, and researched previous companies. Here is a link to where I have uploaded my works on the UB scandal. http://www.scribd.com/Mookman5 Another good resource is from 2+2 poker forum found here: UB Scandal Sticky on 2+2
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11-9-07 - Gank's Post About Mom Fired From UltimateBet b/c Her Son Caught Cheating
* This was while the Absolute Poker Cheating was going on

Quote:

A higher level executive was fired not to long ago, because her 19 year old son, who she got a job at UB, was caught cheating games at the UB office. He definitely was cheating customers somehow, maybe a combination of the above things mentioned at the very least.

edit: Another close, reliable source has just talked to me and told me the woman's son had "administrative access" which let him see hole cards. The source also "wouldn't be surprised if administrative access still exists" The person went on to say "There's also evidence that at least a couple months ago AJ (Green) was overseeing day to day operations

11-16-07 - Anonymous Post on Pocket Fives Suspecting Cheating on UB

Quote:

I played on UB almost since it's inception until about last year. I withdrew all of my money after I saw some strange patterns. I also didn't like their customer service. I also know that security isn't high on UB priority list and as such, even when they know something is wrong...they don't care to fix it. After this whole thing came out with AP, I will never play on UB again and I am a bit happy to realize that I wasn't just having a "gambler's mentality" about the whole thing, after proof of the AP situation.

1-8-08 - Story About Possible Cheating at UltimateBet Breaks on 2+2 Forum

---------- I have compiled a chronological list of relevant posts by players that were cheated on UltimateBet. These posts start in January 2008 and End in July 2008. These posts basically served as the investigation into Ultimatebet from the players and detectives side. Here is a link to where these posts can be found. Timeline of posts on 2+2 Investigating The UB Scandal

75 days pass before any type of statement is made by UltimateBet.

3-6-08 - UltimateBet Makes First Statement About Cheating On 2+2

Quote:

On January 12, 2008, UltimateBet was alerted to allegations that a player with the online handle “NioNio” exhibited abnormally high winning statistics and was accused of having an unfair advantage during play.

The initial findings of our third-party expert confirm that the NioNio account’s winning statistics were indeed abnormal, and we have expanded the investigation to look into whether an unfair advantage existed, how such a scheme might have been perpetrated, and whether additional accounts beyond those of NioNio were involved.

It took almost 3 months for UltimateBet to figure out the statistics were abnormal. This is something Josem proved with his graph and statiical analysis on January 9, 2008. UB said they are still looking to see if other accounts were involved. Scratchy1 and trambopoline listed 12 more suspected accounts by 1-14-08. In late January many HSNL players receive phone calls or e-mails asking to return to UB and the investigation was complete.

5-29-08 - UltimateBet Makes First Official Public Statement About Unfair Play

Quote:

today announced the results of its lengthy investigation into allegations of unfair play, which was triggered by concerns about an account named 'NioNio'

The investigation has concluded that certain player accounts did in fact have an unfair advantage

The individuals responsible were found to have worked for the previous ownership of UltimateBet prior to the sale of the business to Tokwiro in October 2006

Throughout the investigation of this incident, Tokwiro's consistent priorities have been
• To complete its investigation and come to a full understanding of what occurred;
• To refund the affected customers

January 2008: The "NioNio" account and related accounts are suspended pending further investigation.

February 2008: Preliminary findings indicate abnormally high winning statistics for the suspect accounts

February 2008: Investigators confirm that the suspect accounts are associated with individuals who had worked for UltimateBet under the previous ownership.

March 2008: Six player accounts are confirmed to have participated in this scheme. No accounts were deleted at any point, although some account names were changed multiple times. The following account names are known to have been used in the fraudulent activity: NioNio, Sleepless, NoPaddles, nvtease, flatbroke33, ilike2win, UtakeIt2, FlipFlop2, erick456, WhackMe44, RockStarLA, stoned2nite, monizzle, FireNTexas, HeadKase01, LetsPatttty, NYMobser, and WhoWhereWhen.

May 2008: The investigation confirms that the fraudulent activity took place from March 7, 2006 to December 3, 2007.

The refund process will begin immediately

Here is where it appears UltimateBet was going to try to end the investigation. The wording in the statement like “announced the results of investigation. They make no mention of looking at additional accounts. The also say the cheating took place from March 2006 to December 2007. Later on it is found out there are additional usernames and that the cheating dated back further than originally stated.

5-29-08 - Paul Leggett Interview With Nat Arem

Quote:

We have learned through our investigation that one of the individuals involved was a liaison to UB post sale as part of the transition, but that person has not worked for the company or had access to systems for roughly a year.

some of the account name changes did happen post sale. One individual who was employed by the previous ownership appears to have aided the perpetrators by changing account names. This individual served as liaison to UB through a transition period post sale.

We expect to have all refunds completed within several days

Paul says he expects refunds to be completed within several days. Knowing what we know now this seems impossible. It is a fact that refunds were not completed until November.

6-2-08 - Paul Leggett Interview On PokerCast Radio
----I have transcribed the entire interview with Paul Leggett. Here is a link to a text version of his interview:Paul Leggett Radio Interview Transcribed

Quote:

That investigation was comprehensive and it lasted several months

The cheating took place from March 2006 to December 2007

Refund our players which we were able to do this week

The KGC and Gaming Associates have both reviewed our press release before it went out to make sure it was accurate and factual.

In 2006 He established Tokwiro Enterprises and acquired both Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet.

With regards to individuals that might have been involved in ownership staying on as consultants, after the sale, I am pretty confident that that has happened.

Q: Just to confirm, none of these individuals that were associated with the cheating on Ultimate Bet, are no longer employed or receiving compensation from the company, is that right------A: That is 100% correct

But in the end we refunded the players that were effected and that was our priority.

Well again out priority was to complete the investigation as thoroughly as possible

Again many players that have contacted myself after the refunds are very happy that we took this step……….. since we have given them their refunds………..

We are not paying the interest this time because with the Absolute Poker situation, from my understanding, the company felt a greater liability because of the internal employee

it was 100% our priority to make sure that they could take all of our HH’s from UB and put them into a Poker Tracker 2 or similar application and see the two numbers. Our refund amount and their number would match 100% It took a lot of analysis to make sure and a lot of testing to ensure refund amounts were perfect.

Really because of our effort to get that release out and refund out players and concluding the investigation. Now we are obviously dealing with the Media and focusing our efforts on that stuff

Again the cheating dates are incorrect and he said refunds were completed this week, which also turned out to be false. He also says it is a priority that players would receive Hand Histories to compare refund amount. This never happened. Almost a year later and players are still waiting for HH’s and a complete superuser list.

6-4-08 - Trambopoline Gives Paul Leggett 9 More Account That were Missed By UB

Quote:

So I just got off the phone with the ceo and gave him a list of 9 other accounts that they seemed to have 'missed' in the investigation.

Quote:

For real? After 5 months of investigating you seriously can not find several of the most blatantly obvious cheating accounts? Also if I’m not mistaken they did not say anything in their latest press release about continuing to investigate other accounts. Id be willing to bet if I didn’t personally contact Paul about this that these accounts would not have been made public.

6-5-08 - UltimateBet Releases Investigation Update

Quote:

UltimateBet began the process of issuing refunds to affected players on May 29, 2008. Since then, we have continued to investigate additional accounts and data surrounding the unfair play.

We are confident that we have uncovered the majority of the usernames involved in the fraud and processed the corresponding refunds. However, we are currently analyzing data for additional usernames that appear to have suspicious activity.

If we determine that these usernames were in fact part of the scheme, we will refund the net losses incurred by any customers who played against them.

We expect to have the investigation concluded by June 30, 2008.

From the May 29 statement one would have thought that this was concluded. They did not state they were going to be looking at other accounts. Now they say the investigation is going to be completed on 6-30-08, which also turns out to be incorrect.

6-27-08 - Annie Duke Video Interview On Pokernews.com

Quote:

UltimateBet handled this particular issue not only with grace and integrity... management stepped up to the plate in a way that they actually didn’t have to

6-29-08 - Brainwashdodo, UB Insider, Posts On 2+2 and Claims UltimateBet Is Lying

Quote:

Also to give you a hint how the company “found” the “additional accounts and data surrounding the unfair play” I helped them

-----------All of Brainwashdodo Posts In Order

7-8-08 - UB Official Status Update #2

Quote:

UltimateBet’s continuing investigation has confirmed that other usernames, in addition to those previously identified on this site, were associated with the cheating scandal.

We have also confirmed that the cheating dates back further then we initially believed. We can now confirm that the cheating began in January 2005, long before Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG acquired UltimateBet from the previous ownership.

We will continue to provide updates on our investigation, as we are still looking at a few accounts.

After Brainwashdodo dropped all the insider information, it was apparent that the initial cover-up was not going to work. Brainwashdodo showed that it was seemingly easy to get information on UB system and said that UB was not telling everything. Instead of completing the investigation on June 30, they issue another update. Here that admit additional usernames exists and the cheating went back even further. After 7 months one would think that this information would have been realized much sooner. At the very least, how did they get the dates wrong or miss usernames?

7-10-08 - Annie Duke Interview on PokerRoad Radio
--------------------I have Transcribed the entire PokerRoad Interview: Transcribed Radio Interview With Annie Duke

Quote:

When UltimateBet first formed there was a software company (ielogic?) that developed the software and did all of the marketing for the company. Now because of the way the laws of the United States work, you need to form a company to hold the Brand and the Gaming License. That company was called E-World Holdings. Somebody associated with E-World figured out that there was a tool that you used on UB…….. but they figured out if you developed piece of software ,…….that it would allow you to get in a datastream that had the hole cards as well

UB is going to go public and what happens is that to go public they now sorta need to wrap everything together, because a public company has to own the brand and the gaming license, so they buy-out E-World Holdings, So E-World is now completely bought out. The people associated with E-World no longer have a revenue stream, they don’t own anything anymore, OK? Now when that happened this piece of software starts getting exploited.

They refunded every single dime

Thy were alerted, there was an issue regarding NioNio in January and literally within a week they put out a statement saying there was a problem with this account

I was looking to leave the brand, actively looking to leave the brand, talking to other companies, ok?……… So now obviously there is grumblings in January (2008) and I’m like I’m done, I am leaving, I am just going. So they said to me, please before you make a decision, come down to Costa Rica and talk to the people down there.

Annie Duke states a few things that are just not accurate. She states that E-World holdings is completely bought out when Excapsa goes public. From when Excapsa was public it is know they have a 20 year agreement with E-world. Annie said that this is when the cheating started, around 2006. But UB just made a statement a few days earlier stating the cheating started in 2004. Annie also stated “They refunded every single dime” Something that proves to be false as well. Lastly Annie said that UB was alerted in July and within a week put out a statement, something else she said that was not true.

7-19-08 - UB Prop Manager Posts Email From 2005 About Suspected Cheating Taking Place On UB

Quote:

I need help! My name is Lisa, and I used to be the host (prop) manager of Ultimate Bet. I answered to Monsour Matloubi and Russ Hamilton. I repeatedly felt cheated in the upper limit limit ring games and heads up tables. Russ would tell me invariably that there were no evidence of cheating and he looked over the hand histories personally.The last letter I wrote to Monsour (Shah) was this one:

Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:21 AM

Dear Mansour,

…………….there is mass piracy going on at ultimatebet, and I want to see all the cards. The cheaters are going to kill ulimatebet unless something is done to stop them. The list is so long that I can’t start to rattle the names off.

I have prohibited the hosts from playing 30/60, 80/160 and 150/300. I wanted to protect my hosts from being cheated against as I have been night after night.

* I want all 30/60 and higher tables immediately closed. God help the honest nl players.

* I want an immediate suspension in name changes across the board …say the system is under repair at the time and name changes cannot be done.

* I want sessions reviewed in detail (I can provide these); I want to review them. These guys have stolen thousands and thousands of dollars from me as well as other hosts and customers.

* I will fly to vegas to meet with Russ if need be to explain the patterns that I’ve seen, but it would be impossible if we didn’t have a whole day to do it.

I received an answer such to effect that I was paranoid, and maybe just not good enough to play in those games. I never got my hand histories and I never got to talk to Russ. I resigned as manager, and my account was closed. When trying to get security to help me a month ago, they told me all accounts were already paid. Closed accounts were closed accounts. No one at UB seems interested in talking to me.

7-23-08 - Kahnawake Gaming Commission Releases Statement About KGC History and UB Cheating

Quote:

This decision concluded that the cheating that took place was not initiated, nor did it benefit, Absolute Poker as a corporate entity, or its directors or principal ownership.

....….to ensure that all affected players were fully reimbursed.

It should be stressed that the KGC’s primary concern throughout both matters was to ensure that affected players were fully reimbursed and that corrective measures were implemented to prevent against any further incidents of cheating. Both of these objectives have been accomplished

7-25-08 - Tokwiro Enterprises Concludes Its Investigation On UltimateBet Cheating

Quote:

Towiro…..today announced that it has concluded the investigation into allegations of unfair play on UB’s web site.

Tokwiro has compiled complete forensic evidence including the IP addresses, devices, transfer and withdrawal histories, and names associated with the player accounts that benefited from illicitly viewing hole card information.

Tokwiro has identified a total of 19 accounts and 88 associated usernames that were involved in the cheating, including the accounts that were named in Tokwiro's publicly posted investigation updates of May 29, 2008 and July 8, 2008. The same perpetrators that were previously identified controlled all of these usernames. There are no new perpetrators involved, only new usernames.

Make no mistake: our management team is outraged that this cheating occurred on our site through illicit software placed on the UB servers prior to our purchasing UltimateBet

With respect to refunds to the affected players, we are continuing our analysis in order to determine the refund amounts. We will move forward with another round of refunds in the weeks ahead.

7-28-08 - Kahnawake Gaming Commission Appoints Independent Monitoring Team Led By Frank Catania

Quote:

.....…the Kahnawa:ke Gaming Commission (KGC) has appointed an independent monitor, led by former New Jersey State Gaming Regulator, Frank Catania

Independent…………Sure..........
Frank Catania’s Catania Consulting Home Page

Quote:

He (Frank Catania) was instrumental in drafting the interactive gaming regulations for the Mohawk Territory of Kahnawake

Another Article about Frank Catania Helping Setup the KGC

Quote:

He (Frank Catania) was instrumental in the promulgation and implementation of the Regulations Concerning Interactive Gaming for the Kahnawake Gaming Commission, located just outside of Montreal

7-31-08 - Paul Leggett Radio Interview With PocketFives About UB Cheating Scandal
-------- I have transcribed Paul’s entire interview and have added a link to a text version of his interview here: Paul Leggett Transcribed Interview With PocketFives

Quote:

There has never been any cover-up in our investigation. We’ve made two statements listing accounts that were involved and we made a final, or another statement of Friday regarding the completion of the investigation

We try to be forthcoming with what exactly occurred to our understanding and how the cheating happened, and things like that, what usernames were involved.

we are committed to having out investigation verified by the KGC and their auditors ,and finishing the refunds, and getting everyone, every cent that is owed to them.

we believe we are going to get these scandals behind us, really prove to the community that we are secure, safe, and transparent

In my opinion, we’ve done everything to this point that we can to make sure players are paid back……… I am committed, to getting enough information out to satisfy the public regarding the current situation with Ultimate Bet.

I have an open door as well to people who are concerned about their refunds.

That we’ve had nothing to do with this and it really was people from the previous ownership involved.

Committed to getting enough information to satisfy the public, yeah right. What are all 88 screennames? Where are the HH's? Why are emails and phone calls to UB being ignored to present day?

9-18-08 - MSNBC Breaks UltimateBet Cheating Plot and Investigates Previous Ownership

Quote:

It’s a mystery steeped in international intrigue and featuring a cast of characters that includes some of the world’s most famous poker players, the former grand chief of a Canadian Mohawk community and executives of a secretive Oregon Internet security company.

NioNio’s win rate was 10 standard deviations above the mean, or less likely than “winning a one-in-a-million lottery on four consecutive days,

Published accounts indicate that the poker software used by UltimateBet was developed in the late 1990s by ieLogic, a Portland, Ore., company. After that, things quickly become murky.

Barry Greenstein has publicly stated that some of the players involved in the development of the site were given an ownership interest as compensation.

In an earnings announcement on Aug. 16, 2006, Excapsa stated that it had a 20-year license agreement with UltimateBet’s owner, which it identified as eWorld Holdings Ltd.

Blast-Off Ltd., had previously been listed in filings as an Excapsa license holder for Elimination Blackjack, a tournament version of the popular card game invented by Hamilton, the ieLogic consultant.

The tangled corporate trail has persuaded some players that Tokwiro is a false front created to obscure the true ownership of both UltimateBet and Absolute Poker.

9-29-08 - Kahnawake Gaming Commission Names Russ Hamilton as UltimateBet Cheater

Quote:

The Commission found clear and convincing evidence to support the conclusion that between the approximate dates of May 2004 to January 2008, Russell Hamilton, an individual associated with Ultimate Bet’s affiliate program, was the main person responsible for and benefiting from the multiple cheating incidents.

Furthermore, the KGC is currently in contact with the appropriate law enforcement agencies and intends to fully cooperate in the prosecution of all individuals involved in the UB cheating incidents

....….under the close supervision of the KGC, its employees and agents, commence refunding all players accounts.

Ultimate Bet shall immediately pay a fine of $1.5 Million USD to the KGC for its failure to implement and enforce measures to prohibit and detect fraudulent activities.

------Fine Paid in October 2008. On January 22, 2008 The KGC gives a breakdown on what the fine money was spent on. The Mohwak Council in the statement says the cheating occurred between 2007 and 2008. Contrary to statements made by UB and the KGC. Mohawk Indians Collect and Spend UB Fine, but Get Cheating Dates Wrong

10-1-08 - MSNBC Article Naming Russ Hamilton Cheater in UltimateBet Scandal

Quote:

…..identifying a well-known Las Vegas poker player and golf hustler as the “main person responsible for … multiple cheating incidents.

Stating that the cheating scheme ran from approximately May 2004 until 2008

11-5-08 - Kahnawake Gaming Commission Confirms UB is Refunding Players, Holding Off on Final Decision

Quote:

The KGC will defer its final decision in this matter for a short period of time for the purpose of ensuring that all required reimbursements have been made.

The KGC’s final decision in this matter is expected to be issued once all player refunds have been confirmed.

What is the KGC's final decision? Will UB lose its license? In the AP case the KGC offered a "final report" but not yet in the UB case. The KGC is also not responding to emails or phone calls. The only thing the KGC has done since this is issue a statement about the 60 minutes episode.

11-18-08 - Court Liquidator For Excapsa Issues Statement About Settlement With Blast-Off Ltd.

Quote:

In addition, Excapsa acquired an ownership interest in all gaming software owned by Blast Off and its subsidiaries.

We are hopeful that the gaming software will provide opportunities to generate further value for Excapsa's shareholders.

Our investigations have confirmed that the tool which enabled the cheating on the Ultimatebet sites was inserted before Excapsa purchased the software code from a third party in 2005.

We are currently evaluating options for recovery of the costs and damages incurred by Excapsa in connection with the settlement including, possibly, pursuing legal action against the perpetrators of the cheating and prior owners of the software code.

11-20-08 - Paul Leggett, COO of Tokwiro Enterprises Blogs About Rebuilding The UltimateBet Brand

Quote:

On November 3rd, 2008 we settled with the previous owners for $15 million dollars. By November 5th, we awarded all the remaining refunds to players who were victim to the cheating on UltimateBet.

We fought hard to bring the guilty parties to justice and give the money back to our players

We also plan to work with independent third parties that could potentially provide us with full auditing services, whereby they would audit all hand histories on our sites. We also want to give our players the option of turning to a third party authority if they do not feel we have fully resolved their issue or complaint.

We look forward to merging AbsolutePoker and UltimateBet onto one unified poker platform very soon, which will make us one of the largest poker communities online today.

11-26-08 - Paul Leggett Memo to UltimateBet Employees About Upcoming 60 Minutes Story

Quote:

The alleged cheater, who was named in the September 2008 KGC statement, has never been an employee of Tokwiro; nor has he been an employee of AP or UB since our purchase of these companies.

We have now completed all reimbursements to affected players. Everyone, who was a victim of these schemes, has now been made whole.

11-27-08 - Paul Leggett Blogs About Not Participating In The 60 minutes and Washington Post Stories About UltimateBet

Quote:

We continued to cooperate with them in hopes of getting the truth out about what really happened.

According to the CBS News website, the show that they have been developing for 8 months (man, our investigation didn’t take that long)

In the UltimateBet scandal, we inherited the cheating from the previous ownership. We fought for the better part of a year to investigate and understand everything that happened

But we have put a tremendous amount of effort into refunding all affected players, being transparent, and ensuring this can never happen again.

Tremendous amount of effort in being transparent? Who are the cheaters? Where are the HH's? What are the 88 screenames? Transparent. Sure

11-29-08 - Washington Post Article About Joe Norton and UltimateBet Ownership

Quote:

In 1996, the Kahnawake established a gaming commission and later drafted regulations and started licensing Internet gambling sites

Norton played an instrumental role in helping to set up MIT and later worked at the site for two years after he retired as grand chief in 2004.

In 2006, he bought Absolute Poker and UltimateBet, though he didn't announce the purchases until a year later.

Nobody knew Joe Norton bought UB or AP, including the Mohawk Chief. Why would he wait a year to make the annoucement?

11-30-08 - Washington Post Article on UltimateBet Cheating

Quote:

Dozens of these sites are located in countries with no reporting requirements. The licensing agencies there essentially operate as pay-as-you-go boutiques, generating millions of dollars in fees while showing little interest in policing rogue sites.

Often, owners hide behind multiple layers of limited partnerships, making it difficult to determine who controls the sites or to lodge complaints about cheating.

He was instrumental in setting up the licensing agency and a highly profitable companion business that owns the server farm. Yet until he issued a news release in October 2007, even some of the most powerful members of his tribe had no idea Norton owned the poker sites.

I was as surprised as anyone else," said Michael Delisle, the current grand chief of the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake.

Catania, the outside investigator, said that UltimateBet officials did "no due diligence on the technical part. None.

11-30-08 - 60 Minutes story about UltimateBet & Absolute Poker titled The Cheaters

12-1-08 - Kahnawake Gaming Commission Responds to 60 Minutes Story

Quote:

The Ultimate Bet (“UB”) cheating was initiated while UB was owned and operated by Excapsa

All players that were adversely affected by cheating (both AP and UB) were fully reimbursed…………. The KGC played a key role in facilitating and monitoring reimbursements.

the KGC has initiated a criminal complaint against at least one cheater (Russ Hamilton) and is cooperating with law enforcement authorities

Eveything that the KGC says in this statement appears to be false or misleading. The court appointed liquidator points out the errors in this statement.

12-2-08 - Excapsa’s Liquidator Responds to the KGC Press Release on 60 Minutes

Quote:

The KGC announcement, which purported to clarify comments made on a recent segment of CBS' 60 Minutes, erroneously stated that: ....the Ultimate Bet ("UB") cheating was initiated while UB was owned and operated by Excapsa.

In fact, Excapsa never owned UB. UB was a licensee of Excapsa's gaming software and was owned and operated by an arm's-length third party.”
“Moreover, it is a matter of public record and well-known to the KGC that Excapsa acquired the software code from a third party in July 2005, more than a year after the cheating on the Ultimatebet sites began.

It is disappointing that, without any prior consultation, the KGC chose to hastily issue a press release containing inaccurate and contradictory information.

The KGC asked us to work with them to ensure that the $15 million settlement payment was used exclusively for player refunds. We took the lead in monitoring the disbursement process and gave the KGC full access to our files and records.

I have contacted the liquidator, but since I am not a shareholder he would not tell me anything. Are the Excapsa shareholders going to go after Greg Pierson, IeLogic, Iovation, or Russ Hamilton and other cheaters?

NickStam · 05-12-2009, 08:12 PM

first - I hope they get pressured enough to respond to the inconsistancies and promises in your post.

mbsocc1346 · 05-12-2009, 08:32 PM

2st

Great read. TY.

reverie · 05-12-2009, 08:42 PM

Good work and much respect to OP.

rockforlight · 05-12-2009, 08:51 PM

it really sucks probably nothing will happen

TookURCookie · 05-12-2009, 09:01 PM

Much respect OP. Keep it up

Mookman5 · 05-12-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockforlight

it really sucks probably nothing will happen

First, thanks for all the kind words. As to rockforlight's post. Nothing will happen as it stands now. However, if enough people send this to as many people as possible and spread the word there is a chance. It may be worth a shot to try to contact 60 minutes, Washington Post, MSNBC since they are already familiar with the scandal. Pokernews.com and Tony G seem to have a dislike for UB and even stopped advertising.

It also still wouldn't hurt to keep calling and emailing the KGC and UB. There are two different phone numbers to UB security and numerous email addresses. Same with the KGC.

I am asking that everyone take the time to send a few emails and tell everyone they know to help get the word out. Thanks for all the help.

Mookman5

Pcallinallin · 05-12-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TookURCookie

Much respect OP. Keep it up

.

N 82 50 24 · 05-12-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mookman5

Pokernews.com and Tony G seem to have a dislike for UB and even stopped advertising.

UB and AP are both on PokerNews.

Mookman5 · 05-12-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N 82 50 24

UB and AP are both on PokerNews.

Thanks for the heads up Nat. I see that know. Guess I should have double checked what I was told. Thanks for posting!

ajt8 · 05-12-2009, 10:36 PM

is this important ?????

PTLou · 05-12-2009, 10:56 PM

Tip of the Hat to Mookman. Keep it up.

Since AP/UB is accountable to no regualtory body, your efforts will make it clear to Cereus managment/owners that to have any hope of ever regaining the trust of players, they have to finish cleaning up their mess.

Cleaning up only a part of their mess does not cut it.

They had obvious trust problems before and based on your OP, they still do.

Lou

Mookman5 · 05-12-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTLou

Tip of the Hat to Mookman. Keep it up.

Since AP/UB is accountable to no regualtory body, your efforts will make it clear to Cereus managment/owners that to have any hope of ever regaining the trust of players, they have to finish cleaning up their mess.

Cleaning up only a part of their mess does not cut it.

They had obvious trust problems before and based on your OP, they still do.

Lou

Thanks for the kind words Lou. I hope my efforts do reach the appropriate UB people. Time will tell