I may be remembering wrong but didn't Tony also say something about something good or whatever with FTP just shortly before the useless announcement came out?
Assuming that I am remembering correctly. I wouldn't put much faith in him, his goals may be aligned with us but it is far from altruistic. And then there is the so called good news which was not elaborated on and ultimately not lived up to. Yeah I just don't put much weight behind anything he says personally.
Again this is just personal opinion based on what I may or may not be remembering correctly so please do not flame me. I mean if you guys want to you can but, it would hurt my delicate feelings.
You do know that TonyG is sponsored by a site that is now in direct competition with Full Tilt, right?
Whether it's true or not, I'm shocked by the sheer number of people who are willing to blindly accept him as the savior who is doing everything he can to stick up for us little guys without even considering that little minor detail, especially on a forum that seems to be full of people willing to take the smallest hint of a would-be conspiracy and blow it up into full-on-fearmongering.
You do know that TonyG is sponsored by a site that is now in direct competition with Full Tilt, right?
Whether it's true or not, I'm shocked by the sheer number of people who are willing to blindly accept him as the savior who is doing everything he can to stick up for us little guys without even considering that little minor detail, especially on a forum that seems to be full of people willing to take the smallest hint of a would-be conspiracy and blow it up into full-on-fearmongering.
Did you listen to the interview? He wants the players to come out good, and he states, through the Poker News business, would lose lots of money if FTP goes under. I think he clearly states he does not want FTP to cease its operations and just wants players to get paid, hes just mad about like we all are.
I like Tony G, and I think it's been a positive thing that he has come out defending the players, but I disagree with him on what he says FTP Team should do... As much as they must play all the players back, similar to what PS has done, they also should be listening to their lawyers as it looks like they are in much deeper trouble than many of us think.
You do know that TonyG is sponsored by a site that is now in direct competition with Full Tilt, right?
Whether it's true or not, I'm shocked by the sheer number of people who are willing to blindly accept him as the savior who is doing everything he can to stick up for us little guys without even considering that little minor detail, especially on a forum that seems to be full of people willing to take the smallest hint of a would-be conspiracy and blow it up into full-on-fearmongering.
You should probably check your info, before you start educating people with your condescending tone.
Tony G made it pretty clear in the interview that his stake in FT completely outweighs any interest he has in Party Poker. To quote he stated that the money he makes from PP "does not even compare" to the one he makes from his relationship with FT.
He might be a Party Poker sponsored pro, but Tony G's poker business stretches far further than just his name, that might be known to casual players.
You do know that TonyG is sponsored by a site that is now in direct competition with Full Tilt, right?
Whether it's true or not, I'm shocked by the sheer number of people who are willing to blindly accept him as the savior who is doing everything he can to stick up for us little guys without even considering that little minor detail, especially on a forum that seems to be full of people willing to take the smallest hint of a would-be conspiracy and blow it up into full-on-fearmongering.
Wow, I don't see anybody else doing or saying anything. You need to relax.
This is getting old. DOJ stood aside and said pay the US players what you owe. PS got the job done in quick order. Why can't FT? I mean do we need a map here? Any company that does business in good faith does not behave this way.
You should probably check your info, before you start educating people with your condescending tone.
Tony G made it pretty clear in the interview that his stake in FT completely outweighs any interest he has in Party Poker. To quote he stated that the money he makes from PP "does not even compare" to the one he makes from his relationship with FT.
He might be a Party Poker sponsored pro, but Tony G's poker business stretches far further than just his name, that might be known to casual players.
Thanks for clarifying. Guess I should get my story straight before I open my mouth.
All I knew is that I followed a link from his twitter account to PartyPoker, see him on the page, and thought it was extremely weird that nobody was talking about it.
Which obviously means I didn't listen to the interview. *sheepish grin with a mouthful of crow*
This is getting old. DOJ stood aside and said pay the US players what you owe. PS got the job done in quick order. Why can't FT? I mean do we need a map here? Any company that does business in good faith does not behave this way.
As far as we know the DoJ didn't step aside and say "OK here's your seized funds back. Cash them out with this."
The simple theory is that Stars got it done because their player funds were in separate protected accounts which either the DoJ couldn't size or didn't seize or which it was easy to prove held only player funds.
Tilt, OTOH had most of their player funds in accounts which the DoJ could and did seize, and either it is hard to prove what portion is player funds, or the DoJ doesn't care and wants FTP to pay from other sources and/or FTP is refusing to pay as long as the DoJ is holding their money.
So it could be that Tilt can't pay, or it could be that Tilt won't pay, or it could be that Tilt will pay as soon as Tilt and the DoJ are finished with the accountants.
While it is possible that the difference in timelines between Stars and Tilt is Tilt's fault, we don't know that at all.
Tilt, OTOH had most of their player funds in accounts which the DoJ could and did seize, and either it is hard to prove what portion is player funds, or the DoJ doesn't care and wants FTP to pay from other sources and/or FTP is refusing to pay as long as the DoJ is holding their money.
Spitballing, but if the above was the case and you were a wealthy owner who has made millions from FTP and were concerned about the effect this is having on the viability of your business going forward(internationally), wouldn't you(Lederer, Ferguson, Bitar, etc..) simply provide a shareholder loan/bridge loan to the company to resolve or partially resolve the US cashout problem, knowing that you can repay the loan back to yourself over time from future revenue or the eventual recoup of the seized funds. This seems to be a no-brainer option rather than leaving players in limbo, your reputation on the line and the future of your company in jeopardy. It also seems far easier than the alternative of putting part of the company up for sale.
Leads you to believe that much of this may have to do with keeping the true ownership of the company as disguised as possible for legal concerns.
The simple theory is that Stars got it done because their player funds were in separate protected accounts which either the DoJ couldn't size or didn't seize or which it was easy to prove held only player funds.
If FT were required to segregate funds (were they?), and this didn't happen, then we have incompetence at best.
Worse, if they were using these funds (float) to finance other business activities, then we are in the realm of fraud.
If FT pros are considered owners, and if the DOJ can show they acted like owners, reaped benefits like owners, etc., then clearly they are liable as de facto owners for reimbursement, and quite possibly prosecution.
While all of that is speculation, one thing is crystal clear: the Full Tilt brand is being destroyed, and PS will benefit.
If FT were required to segregate funds (were they?), and this didn't happen, then we have incompetence at best.
They were not required to segregate funds. Under their gaming license, funds can be managed in any of the following three ways (from the Alderney website):
“Not segregated” – this means that the operator has not segregated player funds from the company’s own funds. Player funds are therefore at risk in the event of a business failure.
“Segregated” – this means that the player funds are held in one or more accounts separate from the business’s own funds and that the interest of the players in the account/s is noted in the title of the account. This may provide protection in the event of a business failure.
“Segregated and protected” – this means that the player funds have been segregated and the Commission has been given reasonable assurance that the segregation is likely to be effective in protecting the player funds in the event of a business failure.
Whether they actually did segregate funds is a question that nobody seems to be able to answer. It seems very unlikely at this point though.
Spitballing, but if the above was the case and you were a wealthy owner who has made millions from FTP and were concerned about the effect this is having on the viability of your business going forward(internationally), wouldn't you(Lederer, Ferguson, Bitar, etc..) simply provide a shareholder loan/bridge loan to the company to resolve or partially resolve the US cashout problem, knowing that you can repay the loan back to yourself over time from future revenue or the eventual recoup of the seized funds. This seems to be a no-brainer option rather than leaving players in limbo, your reputation on the line and the future of your company in jeopardy. It also seems far easier than the alternative of putting part of the company up for sale.
Leads you to believe that much of this may have to do with keeping the true ownership of the company as disguised as possible for legal concerns.
Leads you to believe that much of this may have to do with keeping the true ownership of the company as disguised as possible for legal concerns.
Yes, this makes a lot of sense.
And then what's surprising is that they've been blindsided (apparently?) by this. Clearly they knew they were under investigation. Clearly they did scenario planning for just this type of situation?
I mean, it's not like this is a total surprise for anyone. So why weren't they more prepared? This is what is so shocking to me.
It stops making sense to me right at the point where you have to imagine that the people who have been raking in all this dough somehow happen to have an extra few hundred million lying around in cash, or even in accounts that are easy to liquidate.
