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Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer?
View Poll Results: Is Durrrr a scammer?
Yes
806 68.54%
No
370 31.46%

10-03-2014 , 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neemahb
It's a little silly that this is even a pertinent topic in the poker world today. We are just so purely not involved in the situation and have the most limited of access. Our speculations are merely that.
You do realize that there is a ton of people who bet on this challenge and put the money in escrow, right? So yeah, it's definitely pertinent to the poker world.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SretiCentV
Sharing means caring
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deurdy
Any chance the 20M figure is in HKD?
No. He is apparently in very deep, ofc this could be exaggerated by people that don't like him, like to gossip etc - from what I heard it is the truth.

I find it funny that certain ppl itt find it incomprehensible - again these guys are/were playing for astronomical sums where the swings are millions of USD$ Per sesh, throw in degen, hyper lag style of play Dwan possesses coupled with the fact you are playing Chinese billionaire whales who want to gamble and don't like nits and a few months worth of downswing (if you're even a winner) then it's very easy to lose that amount.

Wonder if jungle has heard the same.... It's pretty well known that Blom is in debt of over £5m+
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormblower
You seem very uptight, petjax.
No not at all, i just don't like that people give there unfounded assumptions, guesses, but i am having a ball with there childish reactions to the simple question to give me some proof of what they are saying, that's all.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neemahb
It's a little silly that this is even a pertinent topic in the poker world today. We are just so purely not involved in the situation and have the most limited of access. Our speculations are merely that.
Thank you, you are absolutely right.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 06:20 PM
We have to face it. The only way to prevent scams is time machines.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloFriends
We have to face it. The only way to prevent scams is time machines.
Spoiler:
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 07:56 PM
Quick question - a bunch of people have been talking about Dwan being 20mm in the hole... but didn't he post a mill liquid recently for Paul Phua's bond?

A bit drunk and can't remember exact details, but pretty sure that happened didn't it?

Where's a time masheen when u need one...
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 07:56 PM
First off, I'd like to apologize for taking several days to get to this thread. I've been busy, traveling, and not sleeping much and didn't want to post until I was clear-headed and had a little time to think through what I did and didn't want to say.

I agree that I owe the poker community an update about what's going on with the challenge and my involvement. People who bet on it did so expecting that I would help ensure that it played out in a fair and timely manner. I haven't been able to do that, and I apologize.

A situation arose around 6 months ago (before the LHE bot bet) where Jungle owed Tom some money unrelated to the challenge. He asked my opinion and I said that if I were him I would offer to put it toward Tom's 1.5m escrow and/or his rapidly mounting penalties rather than paying it to him directly. As far as I'm concerned, this piece of advice is outside of and has no bearing on my role as arbitrator of the challenge. There is actually not really any dispute about the challenge. As far as I can tell, Tom agrees that he is obligated to play and obligated to pay penalties if he does not, he just doesn't do it. If Tom wanted to make a case for why he shouldn't be bound to the penalties he had previously agreed to or expected to escrow his side of the bet, that would be the sort of thing I'd be expected to arbitrate. Given that he had not, I felt comfortable advising Jungle that it was fair to count Tom's undisputed and unmet obligations with respect to the challenge against other debts between them.

Tom disagreed, felt that my actions indicated a bias in Jungle's favor that made me unsuitable as an arbitrator of the challenge, and asked me to step down. I agreed to. With no money in escrow, the arbitrators have no power to enforce any decisions, so if Tom says he no longer respects my authority as an arbitrator there's no point in my continuing.

At this point, I don't really know anything that the general public doesn't about where the challenge stands. I believe at some point shortly after I stepped away from the whole thing they reached a mutually satisfactory agreement with respect to escrow/guarantee of the bet and penalties, but I don't really know. Jungle (or Tom) can elaborate if they like.

Lastly, whenever I talk about this I think it's important to mention that I bet a lot of money on Jungle's side. I made this clear to Tom and encouraged him to choose someone else to arbitrate but he was insistent that he trusted me to be fair and impartial despite my financial interest.

Feel free to ask me questions.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 07:59 PM
did you vote yes in the poll?
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ike
A situation arose around 6 months ago (before the LHE bot bet) where Jungle owed Tom some money unrelated to the challenge. He asked my opinion and I said that if I were him I would offer to put it toward Tom's 1.5m escrow and/or his rapidly mounting penalties rather than paying it to him directly. As far as I'm concerned, this piece of advice is outside of and has no bearing on my role as arbitrator of the challenge. There is actually not really any dispute about the challenge. As far as I can tell, Tom agrees that he is obligated to play and obligated to pay penalties if he does not, he just doesn't do it. If Tom wanted to make a case for why he shouldn't be bound to the penalties he had previously agreed to or expected to escrow his side of the bet, that would be the sort of thing I'd be expected to arbitrate. Given that he had not, I felt comfortable advising Jungle that it was fair to count Tom's undisputed and unmet obligations with respect to the challenge against other debts between them.

Tom disagreed, felt that my actions indicated a bias in Jungle's favor that made me unsuitable as an arbitrator of the challenge, and asked me to step down. I agreed to. With no money in escrow, the arbitrators have no power to enforce any decisions, so if Tom says he no longer respects my authority as an arbitrator there's no point in my continuing.


Feel free to ask me questions.
I can see how Tom felt this way, since you lent advice in a matter that concerned the challenge, to his opponent.

This amount that Jungle owed Tom, was it substantial relative to the amount Tom owed Jungle in penalties? I'm not expecting you divulge the exact amount, just to get an idea of how it went down.

(I'm assuming the amount was substantial given Toms reaction).
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:14 PM
Ike in your opinion do you think the challenge will ever be finished?
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:16 PM
Do you think this whole sorry affair will ever see a final outcome (i.e. a settlement or TD somehow finishing the match), and how long do you reckon it'll be dragged out for before it's all done?

Also curious to hear about Ivey's escrow part in the whole thing, and whether TD escrowed money with him (np obv if you can't go into that).

Ty for your input (not that you rly owed NVG any input in the first place).
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ike
Lastly, whenever I talk about this I think it's important to mention that I bet a lot of money on Jungle's side. I made this clear to Tom and encouraged him to choose someone else to arbitrate but he was insistent that he trusted me to be fair and impartial despite my financial interest.
This seems absurd. Not that I am suggesting that you would be anything but impartial.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:18 PM
Ike do you know when dwan will reveal his 'really big issue' with FTP? (If ever)
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:34 PM
I side with Jungleman regarding the 'Durrrr Challenge' but what the hell is he thinking continue to side bet with Dwan went durrrr is so unreasonable?

Jungleman thinking:
if I wins the LHE bot bet, Dwan pays me right away and if I lose I just take away from the 1.5M sidebet /or the cumulative penalty?????

What a mess now! Now Dwan have another excuse/reason not oblige to continue 'Durrr Challenge' because he feel he is being wrong here. Since the LHE bot bet is 'concluded', he feel he is being free-roll for not receive the winning. Too much angling within the gambling community.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ike
As far as I'm concerned, this piece of advice is outside of and has no bearing on my role as arbitrator of the challenge.
Durrrr logic though
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ike

There is actually not really any dispute about the challenge. As far as I can tell, Tom agrees that he is obligated to play and obligated to pay penalties if he does not, he just doesn't do it. If Tom wanted to make a case for why he shouldn't be bound to the penalties he had previously agreed to or expected to escrow his side of the bet, that would be the sort of thing I'd be expected to arbitrate.
What?? So Tom knows what he needs to do...he just doesnt give a **** abt it?
Who are the arbitrators now then ike? Does being arbitrators mean anything anymore? Seems to me with no escrow, whenever arbitrators decide against Dwan he will just disagree and then not give a ****. Dwan you've really lost it. Greed consumed.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:51 PM
I dont get why Dwan would accept action from jm... Tom is smart enough to anticipate that jm will ''angle'' him. For sure there is more to that story, Ike tell us more
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ike
First off, I'd like to apologize for taking several days to get to this thread. I've been busy, traveling, and not sleeping much and didn't want to post until I was clear-headed and had a little time to think through what I did and didn't want to say.

I agree that I owe the poker community an update about what's going on with the challenge and my involvement. People who bet on it did so expecting that I would help ensure that it played out in a fair and timely manner. I haven't been able to do that, and I apologize.

A situation arose around 6 months ago (before the LHE bot bet) where Jungle owed Tom some money unrelated to the challenge. He asked my opinion and I said that if I were him I would offer to put it toward Tom's 1.5m escrow and/or his rapidly mounting penalties rather than paying it to him directly. As far as I'm concerned, this piece of advice is outside of and has no bearing on my role as arbitrator of the challenge. There is actually not really any dispute about the challenge. As far as I can tell, Tom agrees that he is obligated to play and obligated to pay penalties if he does not, he just doesn't do it. If Tom wanted to make a case for why he shouldn't be bound to the penalties he had previously agreed to or expected to escrow his side of the bet, that would be the sort of thing I'd be expected to arbitrate. Given that he had not, I felt comfortable advising Jungle that it was fair to count Tom's undisputed and unmet obligations with respect to the challenge against other debts between them.

Tom disagreed, felt that my actions indicated a bias in Jungle's favor that made me unsuitable as an arbitrator of the challenge, and asked me to step down. I agreed to. With no money in escrow, the arbitrators have no power to enforce any decisions, so if Tom says he no longer respects my authority as an arbitrator there's no point in my continuing.

At this point, I don't really know anything that the general public doesn't about where the challenge stands. I believe at some point shortly after I stepped away from the whole thing they reached a mutually satisfactory agreement with respect to escrow/guarantee of the bet and penalties, but I don't really know. Jungle (or Tom) can elaborate if they like.

Lastly, whenever I talk about this I think it's important to mention that I bet a lot of money on Jungle's side. I made this clear to Tom and encouraged him to choose someone else to arbitrate but he was insistent that he trusted me to be fair and impartial despite my financial interest.

Feel free to ask me questions.
I think we found the problem!
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaOuts
I side with Jungleman regarding the 'Durrrr Challenge' but what the hell is he thinking continue to side bet with Dwan went durrrr is so unreasonable?

Jungleman thinking:
if I wins the LHE bot bet, Dwan pays me right away and if I lose I just take away from the 1.5M sidebet /or the cumulative penalty?????

What a mess now! Now Dwan have another excuse/reason not oblige to continue 'Durrr Challenge' because he feel he is being wrong here. Since the LHE bot bet is 'concluded', he feel he is being free-roll for not receive the winning. Too much angling within the gambling community.
Not for nothing but Ike clearly states that this incident in question happened 6 months before the LHE bot thing. Amazing how some people cannot comprehend what they read.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nba_guru
Not for nothing but Ike clearly states that this incident in question happened 6 months before the LHE bot thing. Amazing how some people cannot comprehend what they read.
I do not comprehend what you saying
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaminjapan
What?? So Tom knows what he needs to do...he just doesnt give a **** abt it?
Who are the arbitrators now then ike? Does being arbitrators mean anything anymore? Seems to me with no escrow, whenever arbitrators decide against Dwan he will just disagree and then not give a ****. Dwan you've really lost it. Greed consumed.
It's been made clear several times that ZeeJustin is the only arbitrator.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaOuts
I do not comprehend what you saying
The LHE bot thing has nothing to do with what Ike's taking about.
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote
10-03-2014 , 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AggroSpewMonkey
This seems absurd. Not that I am suggesting that you would be anything but impartial.

Pffft. I'm suggesting it. He can't be truly impartial - he's tainted by his involvement with JM. Intentionally or unintentionally, he'd either overcompensate for the fear that he came off as favoring JM or he'd actually favor JM.

You want impartial? Ask someone who is a professional mediator. How can a genius not come up with that obvious of a solution?
Is it time to call Tom Dwan a scammer? Quote

      
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