Most people won't know who Jim Carroll is but he has over a million in tournament cashes and is a regular in the Dallas/Oklahoma events. I played with him a couple of years ago and he was regularly announcing that he was playing blind and then turning over premium hands. I noticed that he was peeling his first card and then would cap it and say "playing this one blind." Basically if the first card was an ace or king. Not really a big deal. I just finished watching the Durant Poker Night in America cash game where he does the same exact thing. The people at the table either didn't notice him looking at his first card or just didn't say anything...they certainly didn't play like they noticed. He clearly on camera looks at his first card pretty much every time he says he is playing blind. I googled it and found this:

sitehttp://www.jimcarrollbio.com/jimcarrollpoker.php

He seems to have lots of godly lessons that parallel poker. Don't know where angle shooting at the table fits into all that. Thoughts on whether this is an angle or cheating or just a part of the game? Also if you ever play with him...now you know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2NgF9pKFMw

Watch at 23:15 and 31:30 for examples.

it's not an angle

It's probably nothing more than a weak hustle. Guess I am just surprised that it seems to work.

It may not be the best etiquette but it's certainly not cheating. It's roughly on par with pretending to be sympathetic saying something like "just save your money, I've got it" when you're bluffing.

It's clearly an angle.

Amazing nobody ever watches him as he sneaks a peak at the first card.

He's so spazzy when he covers his "blind" cards and makes sure to tell everyone he's playing blind.

Pretty sure Brunson was on to him though.

I just want people to call him out on it at the table from now on. Or use it against him.

". . . an event took place that caused him to give up poker for 30 years. "I was playing in a friendly home game and I had just wiped out a husband and his wife. I didn't think anything about because it wasn't a lot of money. However, I went to the rest room and saw them embracing each other and crying in the adjacent room. I felt so guilty, that I took all the money I had won, tossed it on the kitchen table and left." . . ."

I've seen people pull the angle OP is talking about but this wasn't one of those times. Was a pretty donkish call on hand 2 though when he looked at the A and raised and then called Dennis P's reraise when he looked at the 2nd card and saw he had A5 suited.

It's weak angle at best. Everyone should know no to get caught in verbal bs


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so telling lies at a poker table is a clear angle to you?

is tony g angling when he's having fun trying to get people on tilt?

So here's the question: isn't this like a tell? i.e. if you notice he's doing it, it seems like you should keep it to yourself because you now have considerable information about his hand. Half-God-mode, I suppose.

"I'm not bluffing".

To me, totally depends on the nature of the lie. Of course, if you're talking about your own hand in a tournament, you have to be lying or you're breaking a rule. Coffeehousing is just part of the game.

Other types of lies, not so much... they fall into the category of angle, as far as I'm concerned. The first time I ever played in a live tourney, I had a player do a similar angle. He shoved pre, it folded to me in the big blind, and I asked him for a count. He did a little side-to-side motion with his finger and said, "you're looking at it." I called, only to learn that he had hidden some big-denomination chips behind a wall of smaller ones, mostly ante chips. So it looked like he had about 8x left when he actually had closer to three times that. I never would have called (I had 66) if I knew he had that much.

As for Carroll's play, OP, you have it right at "weak hustle." Looks like something you do at a home game once. I say once because no one should fall for it after that. Then again, I don't think I would notice him peeking at the first card since I'm probably looking at my own cards at the time he does it.

It is subjective.

In my opinion it is an angle. I am entitled to my opinion.

Sorry, I should of said "In my opinion, it clearly is an angle" although in NVG most posts are obviously personal opinions.

Seemed like he couldn't control himself from doing it over and over. He does it more than in just the time stamps OP provided

I play a lot of hours live and have never found myself verbally "telling lies at a poker table".

I just play poker. Maybe a leak, IDK.



Not gonna get caught up in the definition of angle or ethics in poker. Especially a tv production where things like this are undoubtedly encouraged.

Is Tony G angling Phil Helmuth or is Phil angling Tony G?

Is Tony G pretending to give Phil an edge sleazier than Phil instantly jumping on what he thinks is his perceived edge?

It's poker. Get the money however you want.

Angle shoot or lie all day, it's not illegal.

After the first time Carroll said he didn't look and "woke up" with a monster, I would probably be watching him. He wasn't exactly a ninja.

I just play poker. I'm not a good hustler, but I'm good at not getting hustled.

I see very little of this live and the ones who attempt it generally aren't very good. They usually make the game good though.

I'm more of a motor boater.

At first I thought that it was an amazing coincidence. But after word got around about this hand several people told me that he was playing me.
You guys can decided for yourselves:

http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/upda...rr=5&curpage=3

Oh yea, scroll down to playing blind does not work out for Jim Carroll

Enrique

Right when I noticed it in the tournament and didn't say anything I obviously was just using that information against him. It is maybe just his arrogance about it that makes me wonder why nobody has called him out.

Also the examples I listed on that video are just a couple and maybe not even the best ones. He does that throughout the entire session....which is a few videos.

This isn't an angle though. It's straight-up cheating. Unless the venue you played at doesn't require large-denom chips to be out front and visible.

A big reason why NL games are so ****ty is that these opinions are so common. Poker is entertainment to the vast majority of players, lying to them in order to trick them is one of the best ways to keep fish from coming back.

Nobody is dumb enough to fall for the "I haven't looked at my cards" line. (except maybe Helmuth)
If they do fall for it once, they probably won't fall for it again.
Obviously, it is bad to mistreat fish. I don't think this qualifies.

seems scummyish

They do, but it was my first live tourney and I didn't know it was a rule at the time (another in the "my bad" category).

The floor gave the guy a warning but for me, it was too late. He just said it was a tough break and advised that I seek an accurate count in the future.

By the way, loosely related to my story was this moment last December. Might have been discussed in the TV poker forum but I didn't look. Personally, I don't think it changed things very much that the effective stack appeared to be 20x rather than 25x, and I think it was an honest mistake by an amateur. But the situation itself is another example of a potential angle.



As for pure angles, I'll just post this classic because it has a train-wreck quality that I can't get enough of. Yeah, I'm a sicko...

You're borderline idiotic if you think this is an angle.

Bad analogy imo. There's a difference between deception that's an intended dynamic of the game, and deception that's unintended and disadvantages others.

If I bet big with air, or verbally tell my opponent he should fold when I know he shouldn't, that's how the game was intended to function as thus is ok.

A good example of unfair deception is if I say call but purposefully put in a raise (knowing it will count as a raise but make me look weaker than if I raised normally). Clearly the game is designed so that you're supposed to know if your opponent meant to raise or call, and by doing this you give yourself an advantage, so this type of deception is cheating.

It's clear the game is intended to function with players only knowing their own hole cards. By simply not looking at your own hole cards, you're going against the way the game was intended to be played, but that's okay because it puts you at a massive disadvantage so nobody is going to complain (it can't be cheating if you're doing something that you know can only disadvantage you). But by saying you haven't looked at your cards when you have, you're now advantaging yourself as well as playing the way the game isn't designed to function, so that's cheating.

Sounds like he got angled