In the future... AI > Best Players? - Poker News

In your opinion, will technology ever advance to a point where a bot/computer is intelligent enough to have a significant edge on the game's best players? (Ivey, Durrrr, PA, Galfond, Jungle, etc)

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09-11-2010 , 03:22 PM

Da33le

leader of the normals

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 8,410

I doubt it, because I can't see how AI can ever understand human emotion.

AI could probably master the game theory side of it though. Like in limit hold em.

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09-11-2010 , 03:23 PM

ArcadianSky

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da33le

I doubt it, because I can't see how AI can ever understand human emotion.

But in poker, isn't being emotion-less generally a beneficial quality? being emotionally tied to losing 4 buy-ins in a session can be super detrimental to anyone's play.

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09-11-2010 , 03:25 PM

Da33le

leader of the normals

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 8,410

There is no such thing as emotion-less imo. I would say emotion plays abig part, especially preflop. Durrr doesn't only play top hands, he will play the 2,6 off.

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09-11-2010 , 03:31 PM

JackHighFlop

adept

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 983

Yes. A bot which has access to every information about a player's play, knows how to exploit each leak, and know how to introduce randomness in his algorithms as to not be exploitable himself, would crush everything in sight.

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09-11-2010 , 03:35 PM

pineapple888

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 13,111

Of course "Yes."

The only question is when.

For the next 5 years or so, I'm not particularly worried about it.

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09-11-2010 , 03:35 PM

NomoneyHU.

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Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 6,061

But just remember that a bot is only a machine. Once the pros will spot the pattern of the AI of the bot , it will be over. We will put the bot on a certain range of hands based on every possible action (3-bet range , PF raise range , bet-sizing). The human has the capacity of mixing up his game which the bot cannot do.

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09-11-2010 , 03:37 PM

ArcadianSky

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by NomoneyHU.

I find this to be grossly inaccurate.
If you can teach a bot to completely randomize it's play and balance ranges, then no "pattern" would exist.

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09-11-2010 , 03:38 PM

JackHighFlop

adept

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 983

Quote:

Originally Posted by NomoneyHU.

Bots today can't yet mimic randomness. It's only a matter of time. An algorithm can be made so complicated a human mind couldn't decipher it through normal means.

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09-11-2010 , 03:42 PM

#10

Presto14

newbie

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 49

question should be when will it not will it

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09-11-2010 , 03:43 PM

#11

NomoneyHU.

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Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 6,061

Quote:

Originally Posted by Presto14

question should be when will it not will it

wat?

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09-11-2010 , 03:46 PM

#12

SretiCentV

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,695

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackHighFlop

Bots today can't yet mimic randomness. It's only a matter of time. An algorithm can be made so complicated a human mind couldn't decipher it through normal means.

WTF you think computers can't do random and yet you play on sites that allege to deal you a random board - something doesn't compute here.

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09-11-2010 , 03:49 PM

#13

repulse

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Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by Presto14

question should be when will it not will it

Yep. Unless some tremendous event in the future of human history causes computing power to stop growing, at some point in the future, computers will be able to solve entire poker games by brute force within a few minutes instead of a few millenia or whatever the current going rate is.

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09-11-2010 , 03:49 PM

#14

Shpank_oh

adept

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 774

Computer processing ability will rival that of the human mind in ~2035, so yeah I think it's just kind of a matter of time tbh.

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09-11-2010 , 03:55 PM

#15

spew$

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 523

don't wanna play this guy tho

Spoiler:

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09-11-2010 , 04:16 PM

#16

Immortal-1337

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,415

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WTF you think computers can't do random and yet you play on sites that allege to deal you a random board - something doesn't comput

Doubt you got a clue about programming, it`s still an alogorithm. If u got the algortihm you cou could know which cards you are dealt etc.

edit: I try to find a good article about it.

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09-11-2010 , 04:17 PM

#17

Drop_Volley

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 267

Allen Iverson will never be better than Tom Dwan in poker.

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09-11-2010 , 04:26 PM

#18

McStinky

adept

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 846

I think that if the smartest people in the world put their minds to it right now, it would happen very soon. It doesn't seem like that hard of a problem. People just don't care about it enough.

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09-11-2010 , 04:26 PM

#19

deesnuts

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,958

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da33le

I doubt it, because I can't see how AI can ever understand human emotion.

Someone's never seen Short Circuit

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09-11-2010 , 04:29 PM

#20

vittoleon

adept

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 705

AI will always be programmed to react to humans actions. If human makes his moves knowing AI tracks them all he can anticipate and for example play big bluffs the way he played premiums before. not that it matters, whats the point playing an AI anyway.

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09-11-2010 , 04:31 PM

#21

mWired

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple888

Of course "Yes."

The only question is when.

For the next 5 years or so, I'm not particularly worried about it.

Absolutely agreed.

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09-11-2010 , 04:32 PM

#22

Presto14

newbie

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by McStinky

I think that if the smartest people in the world put their minds to it right now, it would happen very soon. It doesn't seem like that hard of a problem. People just don't care about it enough.

It's not as easy as you might think. There is an entire CS lab at U of Alberta dedicated to solving this problem and presently they have a limit holdem bot that can play at the level of a professional player. A no-limit bot is nowhere in sight though.