Guys, this thread is a repeat of the same questions time after time. just search the thread, in short the answer is skrill and neteller.

Ok, so a quick look at the Daily programs for the house and also the senate show that the only mention of the IGA amendment is happening in the senate, as a message delivery that the house disagreed to the proposed senate amendments of the bill.

I'm not too hot on the political process from here but I think there is a 3rd reading required before it can be passed. This is supposedly a formality when it is actually presented (and can be presented in the house and the senate on the same day) however, currently, the daily info for the house doesn't have it listed today so unless something changes from the current schedule I think that we should be ok until next sitting dates after winter break (Aug 8th).

We may end up missing the chopping board by the skin of our teeth this sitting. Don't quote me on all this though since I am not well versed in the workings of the Australian parliament.

Still... would be nice if you're correct

It could be worth checking out the p2p transfer threads here on these forums(there's one in the internet poker subforum)

Relevant section below:
The amendments are so minuscule that there's no chance it goes all the way down to this, what will likely happen is that the senate won't press the requests for amendments and the bill will pass as it was originally put forward. As for the timing I've given up on guessing at this point but would say pontylad has the right idea.

EDIT: the House of Reps put in their own amendments, don't really have time to go through it in much detail but at a glance don't see anything overly crazy in there, likely it will go back to senate and be approved

Joey messaged me to say he was busy yesterday but will have an update shortly.


I'm under the impression yesterday was a good thing for us and delays the whole process but not completely certain, will wait for the AOPA statement. I expect we'll have some sample submissions ready to go soonish and anyone unfamiliar with the process can basically copy the formatting from an AOPA submission and tailor it to reflect their personal experiences with their own content, obviously people are welcome to make their own submissions as well but i'm under the impression it isn't urgent as the hearing isn't until September so we should have plenty of time to get this right as we only have one shot at it and high quality submissions are important as well as quantity.

Yeah senate still going but not going to be IGA stuff, bullet looks dodged until August.

Sorry to make you guys sweat the whole day but have been crazy busy.

This was never coming up today. Government had far more important fights (Gonski) to worry about. Even though this is our whole lives it is of very little importance to them.

There is a real chance that they just bench it until after our inquiry.

Either way, I have started talking to Pokerstars and will seek to get clarification for them but there is actually a case for them not to pull out of the market until the inquiry has been finalized. The climate is very different for ACMA now. They are unlikely to ferociously chase down an industry the government is making a decision on.

That is by no means a confirmation or a guarantee but the dialogue has changed now. We have our 'day in court' so it isn't unreasonable for them to keep the status quo until a decision is made.

Will try and start working on some content tomorrow and over the weekend and we should all be mentally preparing to make a submission over the next two weeks.

If you are reading this you MUST make a submission. Hoping somebody else will do it for you is not an option.

Quoting for emphasis. I'll be personally contacting every professional player I know when i've done mine and expect all of them to complete one. Any recreational player who enjoys online poker needs to as well, we have to have a large volume of submissions from a wide range of people both recreational and serious players to be taken seriously

I'll be chatting with Joey when he has time to get the formatting down and making my own submission in the next week or two.

Can submissions be made by someone who isn't enlisted to vote? Does the government not have an ear for someone who doesn't vote or is this a different case?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Any possible way a foreigner like me could help you guys out with this submission thing?

Hi team,

Hope everyone is well.

I was going to try and get some official mail out today but am running behind schedule. With that in mind I have put some points together that will help you guys to start working on your submission.

Key things to consider.

1) Make sure your answers relate to the submission terms of reference. You may find it easier just to put the terms of reference as a heading and then to write your feelings about that. If you are more comfortable using dot points then do that.

2) Remember, this isn't an English test so if you are worried that you may not be a good writer, don't worry about it. Having worked in a political office before I can assure you that these guys get all different standards of writing. They will do there best to read through and understand your point so don't be afraid about that.

The above being said, do your best. Make it neat, use spell/grammar check to make it the best you possibly can.

3) Speak about you. I have written some general points below, don't copy these, use them to stir your thoughts. If everyone goes and writes the exact same thing then there isn't a whole lot of point.

At the end of the day you are an expert on YOU. You know how you feel and what it is about poker you love and the benefits it brings to your life. A submission requires real people, not 2,000 copies of the same talking points. Definitely touch on general points but bring things back to your personal experiences and humanise your submission as much as you can. Poker isn't just something for lawmakers to say yes or no to. It is a way of life for tens of thousands of Australians. We need to make sure they understand that.

3) Don't get too hung up on saying you are a winner and you are a great player etc. If every single person writes in saying they are a superstar we look quite delusional which has a damaging effect on our overall argument. Sure if you are James Obst, or Jarred Graham or MonsterDong (or anyone from Adelaide it seems) you can talk about the professional aspect of it.

However, the main key on our argument is that this is a hobby enjoyed by everyday Australians who live everyday lives. The more we can keep it on the hobby/fun sense the better.

Below I have listed the terms of reference and some of the points that I would suggest we all thing about when writing.

Submissions need to be in by the 21st of July but I would suggest we all aim to have them done by the 14th of July because things happen.

Start sharing your thoughts on below and let's start writing these things and sending them out!

the participation of Australians in online poker;

What are online poker players like?

Everyday ordinary Australians?
What type of job do you do? Where do you live? Do you have a family?

Does Poker consume your entire life? What other things do you do besides poker?

the nature and extent of any personal or social harms and benefits arising from participating in online poker

Does poker affect your life in a negative way?

Are you so obsessed with playing poker that you are unable to do other things?

Do you have a social network or community you have formed through poker?

Do you have close friends that you have met through online poker? Do they all still play poker?

If you do, what are these people like? Is your network rife with problem gamblers?

Do you or does anyone you know have a problem with gambling? If so is it online poker that they are addicted to or is it another form of gambling such as sports betting or slot machines?

Do people in your network/community do positive things for their community i.e
volunteer work/community groups? What are examples of these?

Do you spend a lot of time solely playing poker for the sake of gambling or do you look to practice and get better each time you play? I.e is poker playing an aspirational pursuit for you?

Do you spend a lot of money each week depositing on poker sites? If you are comfortable sharing, how much money do you deposit a month and how does this compare to your family income? Is this an expensive hobby for you?

If you weren’t playing poker as a hobby what would you be doing with that time? Is online poker, by comparison, a cheap form of entertainment?


whether the current regulatory approach, in particular, the recently amended Interactive Gambling Act 2001, is a reasonable and proportionate response to those harms and benefits.


What was the poker landscape like in 2001 when this Act was introduced compared to the world we live in today in 2017?

Has the Act kept up with technology?

If you have been playing poker for all this time whilst poker has been illegal do you think that the Act has been effective?

If you have managed to be a person who contributes to society over the course of your time enjoying poker as a hobby does it seem reasonable to ban a hobby you enjoy?

If your enjoyment of playing poker does not affect anyone do you think it is the government’s job to tell you what you should do with your spare time and your taxable income?

If the government removes the grey area and makes online poker clearly illegal in Australia do you intend to stop playing?

If you intend to continue playing anyway and the government’s intention is to protect Australians doesn’t a regulated market with clear safeguards in place make more sense
As an Australian citizen would you prefer online poker to be regulated in Australia so that the government can receive revenue by way of taxation on the operators of online poker sites?

Given that the research of experts in the field shows that the prevalence of problem gambling from online poker is very low wouldn’t this additional revenue go a long way to assisting problem gamblers from games with a much higher number of problem gamblers i.e wagering and slot machines?

Just came in to post the link to http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_...ns/OnlinePoker because I saw that they updated it we have until July 21 for submissions. Im spreading the word to check out this thread to aussies on Stars.

Please post DONE in this thread when you've made a submission so we have an idea of how many are done, not sure if they'll all display publicly if I recall correctly last time only some did

I'll get working on mine midweek

Great advice from Joey in the above post, look forward to reading some submissions and i'll post mine when it's done

Also as far as I know it doesn't matter whether you're registered to vote as long as you're an Australian adult and it's pretty hard to not be registered to vote in Australia as an adult. I don't think overseas people can make submissions but i dont know for sure.

I realise some of the people I just tagged on twitter read this thread but for anyone happy to on social media please spread the word so as many casual players as possible are aware of what's going on and how they can make a submission etc.

I also asked Doug Polk if he can make a quick mention of the situation for his Aussie followers now that we have a process in place to make submissions and a fixed deadline of July 21. We should definitely make an effort to have Stars send an email to their whole Australian player base letting them know of the latest developments + how to make a submission

Also worth contacting Jackie Glazier, Joe Hachem, etc etc. and all the high profile aussie players who have a lot of aussie rec players follow them on social media to make at least one post on social media letting them know how to make a submission + the deadline

I'm a bit busy today between majors + sportsbetting but will spend some time on everything midweek, both spreading the word and finishing my own submission

Is there an ideal format we should use? Standard word document, PDF file?

I'll also be getting in as many ears as possible

I believe that Jenny Williams (former UKGC commisioner) lodged a submission to a previous inquiry, so I'm not sure either.

Non Australians making submission would probably need to prove that they have some vested interest in the proceedings, for example poker providers.

I plan to write mine in Word then convert it to PDF.

Hi all,
I'm in the process of putting together my submission. As a pro who's done very well from poker I'm questioning what exactly to include in the submission with regards to the professional aspect. There are financial details I'm uncomfortable including in a public submission and I'm also not sure whether talking about pro aspects of poker will necessarily be helpful to our case. Does anyone have an opinion this either way?

I think it would be enough to say it's been your full time job and primary source of income for X amount of years. Of more interest would probably be how online poker allowed you to develop your skills and rise through the stakes with a minimal risk of financial ruin and got you to the point you're at now where you can make a living doing it.

"Who can make a submission? Any individual or organisation can make a submission to a parliamentary committee". http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_...submission#who

E,g. eCOGRA (UK) (http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_...GA/Submissions) made a submission for the IGAB2016

Any tips when addressing the 3rd point? Joey's notes are really helpful, but I'm struggling on this one. I only discovered poker in late 2015/2016 so I have no idea about the climate back in 2001. Would love to see some sample submissions to help get a better idea.

IMHO just say you started 15/16 so don't know about 2001 - important group affected here are those just discovering poker or yet to do so yet who would face a ban. The only real difference is the way UK now regulates pokerfar better than anyone did in 2001.

This is their latest increase in the Remote Technical Standards, released last week and live from October 2017 -

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk...-June-2017.pdf

see Section 12-13 p25-31 of this PDF.

For these submissions, you have the option to make them confidential.
For the professional poker player point, I'm not sure whether it's a net positive - particularly if the player hasn't paid income tax. I remember the comments in the tabloids a few months when there was a feature article re: the impact of the new IGA to poker pros ie "oh no, the tax bludger will need to get a proper job and pay tax".

Just lodged my submission

Don't talk about how you play professionally in those terms, the ATO doesn't recognise it as a 'job' no matter how much you make and the professional argument doesn't really help us anyway - you can mention how you've improved your skills to the degree where you've made a significant net profit from an enjoyable hobby and that it's been a major part of your life etc. but i'd stick to the other main arguments for the bulk of your submission

I'm going to start working on mine later tonight

@auskid and anyone else lodging a submission feel free to share in thread if you don't mind