It is a brilliant post, which raises the fears that my 'none poker friends' suggest online poker is: a scam. I have to back down and for the first time, agree with said friends.

I went to UB a week or so ago, and have made more profit there than on any other poker site, and only came across this thread after receiving some bad service from the withdrawal system and UB staff, and after only repeated emails did UB reply saying that, whatever the problem was, 'resolved' and i could now carry on playing and receive the money i had rightly earned.

In essence, i wanted to see if anyone else had received a similar experience, as maybe there was a genuine problem with my account.

Then this...wow. My instant thought was to cash out, as indeed, cheating, if the concrete evidence is correct, could go on at other levels, and indeed, perhaps with less suspicion than at the higher limits. I'm rarely suspicious of a player, and only after lengthy sessions of getting to know how a player bets and generally plays, would i ever be able to see patterns that didn't make sense.

Does it? How easy is it to detect? They might be difficult questions to answer, but certainly as suggested, even IF it is almost impossible to detect cheating, the irregular activity that these players showed alongside their miraculous wins should have 100% brought attention and scrutiny to these players. Nevertheless, systems should be in place for poker sites to automatically detect any abnormal wins. I for one would not mind being brought under question if i'd have won even as little as $1000's in a few weeks, especially in the interest of the poker community.

I think it's an absolute travesty that this type of activity has (finally) been caught out, and can only shine a dark light over the online poker community. I hope indeed that this matter is resolved, the players involved are brought to justice, and those that lost are compensated in a way that returns their investment, and then some. Most importantly, I hope this is the end of any other cheating of this nature.

I fear it won't be, though. Full Tilt Ahoy!

OP=THIEF

i played @ ultimatebet for year's and reading this thread make's my stomach turn.
i alway's did think there were some player's making some great call's at some opertune time's.
also think there was(or is) much more of it going on than was brought to light in any of these forum's.(although i could'nt begin to prove it)
but i do want to thank UB for 1 thing through all that,(making mowing the grass on saturday afternoon fun again)..

when i saw this got bumped, i was realllly stoked that there would be some new info, thanks asshat

I made plenty of money over the years on UB. This thread and others convinced me to withdraw, and never return. I just wanted to let those who were instrumental in bringing this to light, know that players are still discovering the fraud and leaving.

ITT!!!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Hello, all,

No, this bump doesn’t mean that I have any new information about Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet/Tokwiro’s cheating scandals :( well, not their big scandals, just my $5K scandal), so, I’m sorry if any of you got excited, but, the topic deserves a bump because there are apparently very many uninformed people who either don’t know, or don’t care about it, and are still playing on those tainted sites, and I have two questions that I’d like 2+2’ers to please help me to answer.

I will (eventually :) get to my UB cheating scandal below, but, please read the following and then please answer both of my questions. Thanks!

In which forum should I post my story of/warning about an ex-friend to whom I made a four-figure loan, and who has finally told me what I have suspected that he would: THAT HE SIMPLY WILL NOT FULFILL HIS PROMISE TO REPAY ME, EVEN AFTER HE REITERATED THAT HE WOULD, SAYING THAT HE THOUGHT THAT NOT REPAYING ME WOULD BE “KINDA SHALLOW?”

I plan to state his full name, city, and occupation, so that, should any 2+2'ers happen to run into him, they can commend him upon proving his (lack of) character so emphatically. I'm sure that some will say that disclosing details like those would be out of line, but, to which I would respond, "Don't you think that his stealing from me was out of line?," and that he should be proud of how he's treated his friend, and shouldn't care who knows it. If disclosing those details will get me banned or my post deleted, will a forum moderator please tell me precisely what I *can* and *cannot* disclose about him, as my secondary goal for my post, beyond hopefully preventing this thief from robbing someone else, is to embarrass him as much as I possibly can, because he has already dashed my hopes of achieving my primary goal, which was to simply be repaid as he had promised me that he would.

I loaned him that much money because we had been friends for years, I knew him to be a good player who has won several multiples of the value of the loan, I had just won UB's $200K Guaranteed donkament for $44K+, and the loan was "only ~2% of my BankRoll,” or “~2.5 Buy-Ins."

(Isn't it messed up how poker can cause one to view money?—I mean, it was "only" a four-figure loan, so, why not?—Don't worry, I haven't played at UB since very soon after I learned of the second of Tokwiro's twin cheating scandals [see my earlier posts in this thread for details of why I didn’t leave immediately, but about a week after I learned of UB’s cheating scandal—Tokwiro is the Canadian company, founded by former Mohawk Nation Grand Chief, Joe Norton, which owns BOTH Absolute Poker AND UB]—the loan to my “friend” occurred well prior to that sad news, NOT TO MENTION THAT UB STOLE $5,000.00 FROM ME WHEN I CASHED OUT [my $5K UB cheating scandal that I mentioned above]—SPEAKING OF WHICH, IN WHICH FORUM MIGHT I ALSO POST THAT STORY? —I’ve already looked into initiating legal action in Quebec where Tokwiro is located to recover my $5K, but, my Canadian friend tells me that the courts there treat indigenous people and companies, which Tokwiro certainly is, with kid-gloves because of domestic Canadian politics, and that $5K is sadly “too small” of a sum to interest any lawyers anyway, since the fee that they would charge would be some percentage of that amount. [I realize that I'm only a lowly $2-$4/$400NL player and have not been robbed of NEARLY the funds that the nose-bleed stakes players were, but, still, that $5K was 12.5 Buy-Ins from my perspective, so, UB and “friends” that I’ve met on UB have cost me *at least* 15 B-Is at $2-$4/$400NL.])

While that sum isn't pleasant to have had stolen from me, much less stolen by a “friend” who had PROMISSED that he would repay my loan to him, I can regularly win or lose that much on any given day playing poker, so, it certainly won't kill me. (I'm sure that fact also had quite a bit to do with my justification for making the loan to him—never again though, as I now realize that I'm just too nice and generous of a person, and shouldn’t really risk a repeat, so, my "poker friends" will just have to learn that the "Bank of LessonsRExtra" is now permanently closed.)

I just want to do what I can to keep this from happening to anyone else and to do what I can to publish the thief’s misdeeds so that others may know precisely the type of loser that they are dealing with, should they come across him, or, God forbid, consider making a loan to him. If they read my story and decide to loan him funds anyway, then they will surely get what they ask for. I mean, if he steals from his friends, what type of treatment should a stranger expect from him?

Thank you,
LessonsRExtra

PS I realize that my primary question in this post did not relate to the twin Tokwiro (AP/UB) cheating scandals, but my secondary question tangentially did. Besides, I realized that people often remain subscribed to threads after people stop posting in them (I was still subscribed to this thread, that’s how I found it and thought of the idea to post this in it :) , and this thread was obviously very popular, so, I shamelessly chose to utilize those facts to increase the likelihood that more would read my post and answer both of my questions above, so, I apologize to those that I’ve bothered. Thanks again for your help with these two questions.

~Lessons~

this was on tv imo

STEAMROLLER is currently playing on AP

Confirmed. He is playing a $1.00 mtt

i've watched 50 hands now and he has played 2 and won both

My guess is the account was banned and then someone created a new account with the same name.