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Old 03-16-2010, 02:55 PM   #126
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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Originally Posted by 1p0kerboy View Post
Viffer's post was deleted and he's not a banned poster.

It's very clear now (if it wasn't before) that Mason is actively helping to cover up some of these wrongdoings.
No.

It's very clear now that viffer posted it, it was taken down and he was told that it can't be an anonymous accusation (which it was), and he reposted it very quickly vouching for what he felt was its authenticity, resulting in the ban. At least part of that was a misunderstanding and his account was rather quickly reinstated after direct contact between Mason and viffer. So you can probably take your indignation elsewhere.

It's also as clear that the policy(at least recently in high profile issues like this) is if you're going to make accusatory posts you do it first-hand either by creating a 2+2 account and explaining who you are or thru your existing 2+2 account, and not adding a layer of insulation by shipping it anonymously to someone else for them to post.

For instance, if you had created a gimmick account to accuse Mason of this your post would probably be gone, but since you didn't it's still here.
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:18 PM   #127
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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No.

It's very clear now that viffer posted it, it was taken down and he was told that it can't be an anonymous accusation (which it was), and he reposted it very quickly vouching for what he felt was its authenticity, resulting in the ban. At least part of that was a misunderstanding and his account was rather quickly reinstated after direct contact between Mason and viffer. So you can probably take your indignation elsewhere.

It's also as clear that the policy(at least recently in high profile issues like this) is if you're going to make accusatory posts you do it first-hand either by creating a 2+2 account and explaining who you are or thru your existing 2+2 account, and not adding a layer of insulation by shipping it anonymously to someone else for them to post.

For instance, if you had created a gimmick account to accuse Mason of this your post would probably be gone, but since you didn't it's still here.
I guess that's a fair and reasonable explanation if that indeed is what's happening.

It's natural to question when multiple times now posts have been taken down and removed with the reasoning not coming until later and being relatively small compared to the impact that the post and/or thread had.
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:48 PM   #128
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

"While you can multi-account for the purpose of trying to hustle people it’s usually pretty benign."

was that a joke Bryce? I'm assuming stoxtrader plays mid to high stakes and there's no way you can believe a new SN can't do anything but HELP a player in the short to mid-term. Heck if I could change my SN every day I sure would.
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:32 PM   #129
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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english only at the tables. but yea, that was clearly a different situation.
I see what you did there now, it was a pretty late night.
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:04 PM   #130
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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I guess that's a fair and reasonable explanation if that indeed is what's happening.

It's natural to question when multiple times now posts have been taken down and removed with the reasoning not coming until later and being relatively small compared to the impact that the post and/or thread had.
the first part comes right out of the hsnl thread.

as to the second, agreed, it's hard to keep up with/piece together everything, and it's natural to wonder "what did I miss and why did I miss it and why won't someone answer me dammit".

there are legitimate reactions when issues like this happen. I think there are also legitimate actions and inactions at varying times while it gets sorted out.
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:23 PM   #131
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

It's also been pointed out that a better job of communicating the reason for the deletion could prove helpful in such situations. Things are happening fairly quickly and it's hard to keep up.

But Ape's explanation covers it here.

1p0kerboy - It's obvious that 2+2 is allowing this discussion to continue. They're not trying to cover up the whole thing clearly. They could if they wanted to. But they are as interested in this as anyone (perhaps moreso since Nick is a 2+2 author).

But when totally unverified and potentially damaging accusations from an anonymous e-mail are posted it is understandable why they would be removed for discussion.

Make the same accusations in the same anonymous and second-hand way towards durr or isildur or Phil Ivey or anyone else not associated with 2+2 and I believe they would be removed in exactly the same way.
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:46 PM   #132
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Bryce, Bryce, Bryce...

While the stox team seem to be clinging to the mysterious altuistic reason for 'migrating' accounts I know Stox was aware of the Brian Townsend incident (he posted in that thread sticking up for BT's character) so he obviously knew the risks involved in what he was doing, and would probably do more damage as he is the namesake of the company and decided that the rewards were worth it.

If these rewards were anything other than financial i will chop off my left nut.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:05 PM   #133
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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If these rewards were anything other than financial i will chop off my left nut.
You may want to invest in some anesthetic in case he outs himself.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:16 PM   #134
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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You may want to invest in some anesthetic in case he outs himself.
maybe not the best time to be witty, I know you want to have your friends back but at this point if he wants to save stoxpoker this might be a good time to come out of the bunker.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:35 PM   #135
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Bryce, any idea when Nick, Stoxpoker, Cardrunners, Full Tilt or Stars or anyone will be releasing a statement?
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:12 PM   #136
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

There will probably be some sort of statement from Jim in the next couple days. Usually this would have come sooner, but he's out of the country on business right now.
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:15 PM   #137
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Taylor also posted in another thread that he is out of the country but will try to address this stuff tonight or tomorrow when he's back in the US.
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:26 PM   #138
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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Originally Posted by 1p0kerboy View Post
I guess that's a fair and reasonable explanation if that indeed is what's happening.

It's natural to question when multiple times now posts have been taken down and removed with the reasoning not coming until later and being relatively small compared to the impact that the post and/or thread had.
It might be natural to question such things, it's another to accuse Mason as you did with this quote

Quote:
It's very clear now (if it wasn't before) that Mason is actively helping to cover up some of these wrongdoings.
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:55 PM   #139
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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Originally Posted by The Bryce View Post
There will probably be some sort of statement from Jim in the next couple days. Usually this would have come sooner, but he's out of the country on business right now.
do they have internet access in said country?
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:58 PM   #140
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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It might be natural to question such things, it's another to accuse Mason as you did with this quote
My accusation was fair because reasons for ninja-deleting several posts and threads weren't given within a reasonable amount of time.

Also the person facing the accusations is a 2+2 author.

Also there have been plenty of times where anonymous posters reported things on 2+2 that could be considered slanderous to individuals or companies and those posts weren't deleted. Most notably there were several during the UB & AP scandals.

But I do apologize for saying it was 'very clear' rather than it being 'possible' that 2+2 was covering up to protect their author.
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Old 03-16-2010, 09:19 PM   #141
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

So shady
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Old 03-16-2010, 09:45 PM   #142
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

sponsorship comes with privileges. why would it be any different at 2+2 than it is in any other segment of the business world?
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Old 03-16-2010, 09:45 PM   #143
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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Originally Posted by Punk In Drublic View Post
Also will a moderator please explain why people are getting banned for posting the link to an upcoming podcast about this subject?

I have a feeling this is because they're afraid this will lead to an uncensored discussion of this topic on said site, which will make the truth come out faster.
I would like to hear the answer to this one as well.
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Old 03-16-2010, 09:55 PM   #144
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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I would like to hear the answer to this one as well.
because donkdown is a sworn enemy of 2+2 and MM, imo
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:16 PM   #145
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

I mean anyone who saw the page realizes they just wanted the gossip and didn't really care about the truth idk if I agree with deleting every reference to them but they certainly didn't seem like any legit company interested in fairness. It was like wow look at the dirt we have against 2p2, let's spread it around!
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:17 PM   #146
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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Originally Posted by The Bryce View Post
There will probably be some sort of statement from Jim in the next couple days. Usually this would have come sooner, but he's out of the country on business right now.
This and the fact that Taylor is going to comment makes it sound like your group thinks the big issue is the FTP accusation. I think we all know what that is going to look like, "no we didn't do that".

Most of that smear stuff is not the point anyway. The issues are as follows, did Nick cheat and how? How many accounts did he have and at what sites? The question on collusion isn't did he collude, no one would be foolish enough to say yes to that. At this point though it likely is in his best interest to get everything out because if this community has shown anything it's that it likes a good drama. Those hands are readily available.

Do you get my point, Jim and Taylor are mostly irrelevant to this conversation. Most every one of us could write what they are going to say to address this issue. What they are being accused of is relatively minor other than say an obvious lack of institutional control. Nick is the one that has questions to answer and if he doesn't do that he is likely going to take you all down with him.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:51 PM   #147
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

i dont play high stakes i dont know who the **** is/are being mentioned in the thread, i have no idea who is 40putts, stoxtrader, etc etc...

but i'm not dumb and can deduce a few things...

(a) he probably wont out himself because doing so may implicate himself in past online poker scandals
(b) he may be trying to coverup for himself/someone else super reputable in the community because he shared accounts (e.g. the accounts being implicated are not all regged to him but to other reputable ppl)
(c) he has a ton of money sitting in his online accounts and is aware that they will be seized by ftp/ps if he outs himself as having more than 1 account, so he is trying to buy time by releasing "statements" that say, rather nothing. quite a comical attempt if so.

and if he does have more than 1 account i hope ftp/ps/ub/whoever brings the ban hammer and irons out this type of behavior.

No matter what lame ass excuse he can come up with.

As much as I envy those who make tons of $$s online, it simply isnt fair when playerpools at 5/10+ are sooo small that accountsharing/spoofing really really impacts the games deeply, especially those who play honestly...This isnt some 50nl (not to belittle unl) grinder trying to get rakeback.

Last edited by aggo; 03-16-2010 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:10 AM   #148
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Err, he has confirmed he has at least three accounts on FTP and Stars.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:20 AM   #149
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Hello,

In another section here. There are men who are suggesting something along the lines of handshaking and other strange business practices with Full TILT poker/ STOX and CardRunner.
The last two are some form of training site. How are they involved. I do not want to clutter that message list with questions because they are currently investigating a character for suspect behavior. SO I ask here. I also, am asking in a reformatted way because I was asked to change the Way I write messages because some of the young men here were having problems. I was asked not to split my thoughts into separate paragraphs/lines. So my question is: Someone called FEE has a letter suggesting something about Full Tilt Poker and STOX poker and CardRunner. Can someone here elaborate?

Thank you.


I am editing this:
CR I assume refers to CARDRUNNERs, if not then clarify please.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:24 AM   #150
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

CR and Stox have some kind of merged business relationship and they both have a business relationship with FTP including the free poker tuition thing where you basically fund a CR and/or Stox account with FTP points.

This is all public info and it in itself is in no way shady.
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