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Old 03-16-2010, 01:03 AM   #101
Sjors
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

censorship itt

viffer got banned
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:20 AM   #102
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

*************

I've just woken up and have a number of (10+) messages asking whether I made a post about StoxPoker's and CardRunners inner workings.

I did not, have not and would not under any circumstances make a post like this.

*************
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:21 AM   #103
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Wink Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1p0kerboy View Post
Wearing makeup/wig at a live poker game is not against the rules.

Having multiple accounts at an online poker site is specifically against the rules.

i think its pretty obv, when BT got exposed for having multi accounted both stars, and tilt (where hes a signed pro) there is more going on at these sites then we will ever know. When this much money is flying around how could it not be.

U get banned if they want u banned, simple as that. BT didnt even lose his status on the site. lol Like how can u think something will or should happen in this case or any other. When your poster boy, (before tom dwan) cheats and then plays freely 6 months later....

Guys that complain about hit and run, or play too deep. Are pretty much asking to be cheated. The more and more i think about it. The more and more, i plan on switching tables more regularly. hopefully avoiding players teaming me, or multi accounting me.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:31 AM   #104
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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Originally Posted by Sjors View Post
censorship itt

viffer got banned
Apparently he re-posted something that he was asked not to post. The ban is only for 3 days so we will likely hear from him again.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:36 AM   #105
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Was it known that he plays as stoxtrader for vids and 40putts the rest of the time? Cos im sure FTP explicitly banned that practice ages ago.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:40 AM   #106
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepymonkey View Post
I'm more concerned about 2+2 deleting the original thread because it involved a sponsor. shady

As Mason mentioned, it came from a banned poster so it was moved for discussion. In the mod forum we discuss whether a thread should remain or not because of X reason. And if it is concluded that the thread is actually okay then we move it back.

Mason's term "would of" wasn't really correct there. It was moved for a legitimate reason and it was kept there for a legitimate reason. Obviously we are allowing discussion of the overall topic regardless.

It had nothing to do with the fact that it came from a sponsor.

PokerStars and FullTilt are sponsors of 2+2 and we allow negative posts about them all the time. 2+2 also allows negative posts about 2+2 and encourages debate on pretty much anything poker. Sponsors are not protected from criticism in the forums: Plain and simple.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:44 AM   #107
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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Originally Posted by Pudge714 View Post
viffers post has been deleted and we will discuss what to do about it. This isn't a permanent move.

Reposting or offering to pm/email/etc the contents of the deleted post to other users will result in bans or infractions.
Pretty clear, I understand wanting to protect advertisers against slander but his post was up in hsnl for over 15 mins and if true needs to be spread as soon as possible. This isn't just going to go away.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:45 AM   #108
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by skelm View Post
*************

I've just woken up and have a number of (10+) messages asking whether I made a post about StoxPoker's and CardRunners inner workings.

I did not, have not and would not under any circumstances make a post like this.

*************
so i guess we now know that the post was based on facts. thx
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:03 AM   #109
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenrice1 View Post
David benyamine- on about his 10th account on FT
Patrik Anonius had a few on Full Tilt
Sauce123
Flawless Victory
LarsLuzak
Stevesbets
I think Eli Elezra said he had a few accounts once
Ozzy87
A lot of the early cardrunners videos
pretty sure Eli was joking. He said it on PAD to Howard L, and said he had 17 accts. Probably needling Howard because it is a known problem
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:38 AM   #110
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

meh, they just got 6 months payment from me, although its prob the last...but at least i got some entertainment out of this thread (or the cpl threads this has been discussed in)

my fav part was where veracity was overused-i <3 three syllable words, just not over and over and over...its why god invented synonyms
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:14 AM   #111
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Can anyone remember is there was an uproar over Guy making multiple accounts?
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:20 AM   #112
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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Originally Posted by CBorders View Post
Can anyone remember is there was an uproar over Guy making multiple accounts?
english only at the tables. but yea, that was clearly a different situation.
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:49 AM   #113
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

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Originally Posted by LucidDream View Post
english only at the tables. but yea, that was clearly a different situation.
Why?
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:55 AM   #114
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

1) do u think Guy switched names to gain an advantage over his opponents? or do u think maybe he was just embarrassed by his results or very superstitious?

2) whether that was his intention or not, do u think he did gain an advantage on his opponents?


and maybe it is a double standard but when a certain game wouldnt run w/o a certain person...that certain person is going to be able to get away w/ some things the rest of the table cant and i promise u no one that is actually playing in those games w/ that person will have any complaints about it and that is all that really matters. ppl who are affected by it in no way should have no complaints.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:14 AM   #115
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBorders View Post
Why?
I'd think that if the other players were fine with it, it'd be okay, since this rule is purely to protect the other players and not the site.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:15 AM   #116
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlockyyyy View Post
I'd think that if the other players were fine with it, it'd be okay, since this rule is purely to protect the other players and not the site.
+1--no one was concerned about this
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:15 AM   #117
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Hilarity ensues in HSNL thread as LHE god and Stoxpoker associate The Bryce attempts to defend stoxtrader


While only using bizarre terms such as "migrating accounts" and "re-rolling accounts", The Bryce is initially shocked people seemed to be in an "internet fury" over the allegations and calls most posters "pathologically bored":

Quote:
So far this thread has pretty much been a train-wreck, consisting of some outrage over Nick short-stacking some percentage of his hand, some outrage over him migrating to new accounts, and a lot of vague, unsubstantiated, and very serious (collusion etc) claims and people slandering Nick as an individual. As ďinternet furyĒ threads go this one probably has the lowest evidence to fury ratio Iíve ever seen.

Regarding migrating accounts what Iíd like to do is not so much issue up a defense as offer some perspective. Three or four years ago it was entirely common for players to re-roll accounts to sign up for new rakeback deals, to regain their privacy, or even to outright refresh their anonymity. It was completely public information that many well-known nosebleed players (PA, David Benyamine, Lars Luzak) ran multiple accounts or migrated to new accounts and the poker community never so much as batted an eye. When I played nosebleed HU LHE it wasnít uncommon for opponents to appear under new screen-names and it was something I never particularly took issue with; at the time I just felt it was a part of the game and something to deal with. While you can multi-account for the purpose of trying to hustle people itís usually pretty benign. Attitudes towards that may be changing, and if you want to have a discussion about whether multi-accounting is something that should be actively cracked down on with no exceptions and strict penalties thatís a very reasonable discussion to have, but whatís been written in this thread so far is mostly the random sensationalist hyperbole of the pathologically bored.
He then claims the edge gained from MAing is nil:

Quote:
In mid-stakes games the effect of playing under an account other than the one you are known for is usually nil
or close enough to nil, anyway:

Quote:
In information saturated environments like high-stakes play with small player pools or heads-up play I'd say it's different, but the impact of briefly regaining anonymity in mid-stakes 6-max games is probably epsilon.
but then admits that what stoxtrader is accused of doing does not equal nil, or even epsilon:

Quote:
Quote:
and what about playing 25/50 cap w/ pretty much the same player pool of regs day in and day out?
In that case it would be a pretty big edge for a while.
He then calls the extra money stoxtrader would have won by allegedly MAing and colluding "pocket change":

Quote:
For what it's worth, the idea of Nick colluding would be totally weird. He's been a successful pro for like 6+ years, is multi-talented, has a pretty laid back attitude towards poker in general, and is in no need of some extra pocket change.
The Byrce then reads some of the background information regarding the collusion claims and the other, unsubstantiated allegations I don't think we're allowed to talk about:
Quote:
So there's a fair bit more going on here than I originally realized. The original post is a mess, however, and I had to dig through 150 posts to get a link to another huge post just to get a decent idea of what's being strung together here. The two things to do here are have someone who actually knows what's going on write a condensed, legible post with the relevant information and then, more importantly, someone (if they haven't already) should get FT on this and have them investigate the 40putts/kinettica accounts and then see if there's an IP overlap with the Stoxtrader account.
Quote:
Yes. I'll throw out some caveats, though, and am going to address this as if everyone can see the e-mail, since I'm assuming that it's circulating in the background now.

Nick was heavily involved in actively managing/maintaining SP in its early days before I joined up with the website, and for quite a while afterwards. Heís never made much of a secret of the fact that he played on an account other than Ďstoxtraderí for years.

The TFTP is not so much false as misconstrued as badly as possible; I'll leave it to Jim to explain the details of how we process TFTP members if he sees fit (he's in Dublin right now). FTP is not being hustled out of anything, in any case (and, for what it's worth, we'd be morons to try).

The comments regarding Leatherass and his reasons for leaving SP are false. LA is ****ed up. Weíll leave it at that.

The comments regarding the SP video process are false. All videos are watched by the production team, obviously, who vets to some small extent. The videos of new coaches and coaches whoíve scored low recently are put through a review panel. Jason Ho made it in before we had a formal review system set up, and given that he was able to convince us that he was a winning small stakes grinder and that his videos were generally well received we obviously ended up with a debacle on our hands, which was embarrassing.

Regarding people knowing that BT had a second account and that Taylor or someone else has sat in Ezraís seat at some point I canít verify, but neither of these things would shock me. Iíve looked over Ezraís shoulder and given his tips, it wouldnít surprise me in the least if someone has sat in his seat and given him tips while he looked over their shoulder. Obviously some people take issue with this.

Regarding the Ďfriendí that had a video put up on CR without review I canít vouch for that individual case, but CR follows the same review process for videos that we do, and has been doing it longer than we have.

Nick recently changed accounts. I just got off the phone with Jim about this (given that heís in Dublin and actually awake). Nick is going to have to make a personal decision about whether to out the reason that he recently changed accounts. To my own surprise there actually is a good reason, and itís ****ed up. And yes, thatís a bull**** answer to the question of whatís going on, but itís ultimately up to him whether or not to out this. He is not colluding.

The rest of the e-mail is basically speculation and slander.

I will stake my entire reputation and poker career on the truth of the above.

This 2/3rds answer with minimal details wonít be satisfying for some, and understandably so, but going into details beyond what Iíve written gets into information that is either somewhat intimate to the business or personally intimate and so itís not my place to out it (it comes down to both Jim and Nick).
Please read the posts as they were originally posted in the HSNL thread if you have any questions regarding context.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:46 AM   #118
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

I've always liked (what I "know" of) Bryce, I find him to be very smart - in a "knows he's smarter than you" way - and able to articulate his thoughts well.

However.. in this case, while I find his arguments logical, it appears his stance and opinion have changed as he's found out more and more of what is actually out there and what may have gone on.

Also, I find the "personal" nature of Stox's supposed reasons very intriguing. I hope we some day find out what these reasons actually are.. if they are legitimate they could be interesting.

And, lastly.... "LA is ****ed up. We'll leave it at that." Man, I really wish that someone would decide to not just leave it at that... purely from a high-school gossip monger angle.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:06 PM   #119
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob View Post
As Mason mentioned, it came from a banned poster so it was moved for discussion. In the mod forum we discuss whether a thread should remain or not because of X reason. And if it is concluded that the thread is actually okay then we move it back.
Viffer's post was deleted and he's not a banned poster.

It's very clear now (if it wasn't before) that Mason is actively helping to cover up some of these wrongdoings.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:07 PM   #120
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

I didn't realize cheating accusations would be covered up if they were brought forth by a banned 2+2 member
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:18 PM   #121
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

hmm disingenuous poker players?? never.....

seriously you should trust your fellow player about as far as you can throw a 50,000 ton truck.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:34 PM   #122
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Ignore the man behind the curtain.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:36 PM   #123
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

why do 2+2 feel they need to cover up for stox/cr? this goes back to the orginal thread that was made which was moved to the "mod forum" or w/e?
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:21 PM   #124
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleboy View Post
why do 2+2 feel they need to cover up for stox/cr? this goes back to the orginal thread that was made which was moved to the "mod forum" or w/e?
Stox is a 2+2 author and is a paying advertiser on 2+2.
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:42 PM   #125
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Re: Stoxtrader Responds To Cheating Allegations In HSNL Forum

Viffer was banned for two days for reposting the anonymous accusations that were taken down. The mods had given a warning that anyone reposting the information would be banned.

Viffer and the mods apparently later agreed that the reposting was a misunderstanding, and Viffer has been reinstated and has been posting since 4:49 this morning.
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