Well said cro man

Obviously. And you'd do it if you had a tiny stack too. Just as I'd take the ball into the corner with a minute to go and a 1-0 lead in a cup semifinal.

Everyone plays poker to make some money, if stalling helps, why not?

Well some NVGtards are arguing just that ITT, but otherwise this is a good argument. I never stalled as blatantly as Chainsaw but I guess you convinced me not to do it at all anymore.

I believe I would choose the vernacular 'douche-baggy' but I like your line.

OK, so I used to deal a little hold em, and here is my opinion about the angleshooting/cheating thing.

Cheating: Doing things that have been previously prohibited (with knowledge, usually the first time a player 'fails' they are warned, then are 'busted' for the failure). The rules are not the same in every house. I.E. Some places have a line that when chips go over, they stay. Some places have a 'forward' motion rule. Some places let players balk with their chips at the pot allot and it is not considered a shot an angle or cheating, just playing well.

Angleshooting: Doing things that need to be prohibited and have not yet. I.E. The reason for the line on the table in the previous example is angleshooters. Players were trying to use the lack of clarity to try to balk chips, basically bet, get info, then not bet based on that info. If the players have respect for each other and the game, there will be no line. They will play with no rule for it either, but they don't have the 'forward motion' rule either. They, are not as 'Douche-Baggy' as you or other andgleshooters that force people to make rules. Every rule has a reason, and came from an angleshooter. The rules of poker are for fair play, the skill comes from manipulating that fairly, not allowing creative abuse of the rules by a few, and to justify it with other logic (I.E. the 5k buy in and disconnection issues). Either we put up with your lameness or make a rule. And all the rules make the game more cumbersome and harder to play at times, so it is better to just not shoot angles.

To sum it up easy, angleshooting is not cheating yet.

And wrong forum too it seems, im in NVG to see funny pics making fun of people, anyone have anything good on this one?

P.S. I almost forgot. Why is there only two choices in this poll? Can I stall a little, not every hand, for other reasons (to tilt all the stall haters, and to make the hands I raise with look crushing cuz I'm way nitting it up and stalling to not bubble, right?). I would have to think longer to think of more options, but here is what you have done: to try and justify something there clearly needs to be a rule to prevent, you have oversimplified an important question of strategy. You are not only looking at it wrong but for the wrong reason. I fear people with attitudes like you make the poker world a much less pleasant place.

To the OP, I'm thinking a simple 'OK I am wrong' would go a long way with this group. Just trying to make it ok over and over and convincing others to do it may in the end force a new cumbersome rule on the subject.
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this

must be great to be so rich that all you kids can give away thousands of dollars in EV just to avoid annoying some internet kids youll probably never see

on the other hand, i think its ridiculously stupid and douchy in live tournaments so maybe you kids have a point

^awesome

same here

Fair point. And argued intelligently.

I don't see that there's much of a difference though. Saying you have a built-in timer is rather irrelevant imo. In live when you call the clock on someone don't they have a timer for that situation as well? People who stall on the bubble live and force people to call the clock on them could argue that they are using the "live time bank" similarly.

Thankfully, stalling live is frowned upon by TD's (and pretty much everyone).

Here's the biggest point for me, and by far the most important aspect of the argument so I'll bold it:

The timebank in a tournament is meant to be used for taking extra time to think on important decisions. It is NOT meant to be used for manipulating the level length, structure, or bubble situation.

This for me, makes online stalling against the "spirit of the game" if you will. For me that's enough.

I play mtt's strictly and put in probably as much or more mtt volume on stars than anyone else ITT. I have never stalled once. There have been times that it would have been +EV to do so. It's the principle of the thing.

I think it's sad that you don't agree, Allen.

Guess I'm in the minority here, but stalling near the bubble (not hand-for-hand obv) when I'm a short stack seems super standard.

If I have a large stack, my goal is to abuse the people who are trying to make the money and take their chips, so I play at normal speed to do this as much as possible.

If I have a small stack, my goal is to make my chips last me as long as possible so that I won't leave the tournament empty-handed. I don't want the blinds to hit me before other short stacks (or people who are set up from larger stacks) bust out. Obviously doubling up several times and making a run at a better cash would be the optimal result at this point, but if I get the money in from a short stack (making some standard push), I'm more likely to bust out than double up, which has to be a consideration. For that reason, I believe it helps me become more +EV to attempt to guarantee myself some cash in this situation by stalling, than to most likely bust out of the money.

Either way, it seems like a pure strategy decision, and not something that reflects on somebody's character at all. Obviously I'm not playing in a tournament to help the other entrants, so by definition, anything that is bad for them is probably good for me (although it may not be the *most* good for me, of my options).

Seems logical, why throw away real money now on a random hand, when in just a few minutes you can play a similar type hand and already be guaranteed in the money

I lol'd

Because in the NFL your peers get laid regularly and don't live to criticize others on Internet forums.

How did all those letters make it on the board if they only chose r s t l n e